Stanley Kusper, Jr. Deposition Transcript 3o3x31
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STATE OF ILLINOIS COUNTY OF C O O K
) ) )
SS.
4 5
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS COUNTY DEPARTMENT, CHANCERY DIVISION
6 7 8
EDWARD X. CLINTON, P.C., Plaintiff/ Counterdefendant,
9 vs. 10 11 12
KUSPER AND RAUCCI CHARTERED, Defendant/ Counterplaintiff.
) ) ) ) ) Case No. ) 11 CH 19310 ) ) ) ) )
13 14
The discovery deposition of
15
STANLEY T. KUSPER, JR., taken before
16
Cathleen M. Baker, CSR, a notary public
17
within and for the County of Cook and State
18
of Illinois, on June 30, 2011, at the hour
19
of 1:00 o'clock p.m., at 444 North Michigan
20
Avenue, Suite 2600, Chicago, Illinois.
21
22 23 24
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1
APPEARANCES:
2 3 4 5
MR. DENNIS C. WALDON LAVIN & WALDON 444 North Michigan Avenue, Suite 2600 Chicago, Illinois 60611 (312) 670-4260 (312) 670-4275 facsimile [email protected]
6 7
appeared on behalf of plaintiff/counterdefendant;
8 9 10 11
MR. EDWARD X. CLINTON, JR. LAW OFFICES OF EDWARD X. CLINTON, P.C. 30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 3400 Chicago, Illinois 60602 (312) 357-1515 (312) 201-0737 [email protected]
12 13
Appeared on behalf of the plaintiff/counterdefendant;
14 15 16 17
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER KUSPER & RAUCCI CHARTERED 30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 3400 Chicago, Illinois 60602 (312) 332-5000 (312) 332-4663 facsimile,
18
[email protected]
19
appeared on behalf of defendant/counterplaintiff.
20 21 22 23 24
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1 2 3
I N D E X WITNESS: Stanley T. Kusper, Jr. Examination by Mr. Waldon
PAGE 4
4 5 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS 6 No. 1
18
GroupNo. 2
24
No. 3
29
No. 4
35
No. 5
41
No. 6
43
No. 7
45
No. 8
49
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
No. 9
60
No. 10
64
No. 11
67
No. 12
70
No. 13
21
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
page 4
1
(Witness sworn.)
2
STANLEY T. KUSPER, JR.,
3
called as a witness, having been first duly
4
sworn, was examined and testified as
5
follows:
6
EXAMINATION
7
BY MR. WALDON
8 9 10
Q.
Would you state your name and
address for the record, please? A.
Stanley T, middle initial,
11
Kusper, K-u-s-p-e-r, Jr.
12
is 1040 North Lake Shore Drive, Apartment
13
23A, Chicago, Illinois, 60611.
14
Q.
My home address
Let the record reflect that
15
this deposition is taken pursuant to notice
16
and all applicable rules.
17 18
Mr. Kusper, have you been deposed before?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
How many times?
21
A.
I have no recollection of that.
22
A few.
23 24
Q. work.
So you know how depositions Did you discuss your testimony today
page 5
1
with anyone other than your counsel?
2
A.
No.
3
Q.
Did you review any documents in
4
anticipation of your deposition today?
5
A.
Yes.
6
Q.
What did you review?
7
A.
Pleadings, exhibits.
8
Q.
Exhibits to the pleadings?
9
A.
Exhibits to the pleadings and
10
other exhibits that were introduced at
11
other deps.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
I can't recall.
15
Q.
For the record, what is your
16
occupation?
17
A.
I am an attorney.
18
Q.
Would you summarize your
14
19
Anything else? I don't think
so.
education, please?
20
A.
How far back do you want me to
22
Q.
Oh, high school.
23
A.
Weber High School, Archbishop
21
24
go?
Weber High School, Chicago; University of
page 6
1
Illinois undergraduate, Bachelor of Arts
2
1957; Northwestern University School of
3
Law, Juris Doctor 1960.
4
Q.
Are you licensed in Illinois?
5
A.
Yes.
6
Q.
Any other states?
7
A.
No other states, no.
8
Q.
What has been your area of
9 10
practice? A.
Oh, it's been varied over the
11
course of the 51 years.
I do principally
12
now labor law, governmental law, education
13
law, EEOC work, Illinois human rights work,
14
collective bargaining agreements,
15
personnel.
16
Q.
Have you ever done any real
17
estate work?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Would you summarize for the
20
record your political experience and
21
positions?
22
A.
On November 1, 1961, I became
23
the assistant attorney at the Board of
24
Election Commissioners at the City of
page 7
1
Chicago.
2
around April or May, I became the acting
3
attorney for the Board of Election
4
Commissioners of the City of Chicago.
5
1964, I became full counsel there.
6
1969, I filled a vacancy and became a
7
member of the Board of Election
8
Commissioners and chairman.
9
until March of 1973, when I was appointed
10
by the County Board to fill a vacancy in
11
the Office of County Clerk of Cook County;
12
and I successfully held that office until
13
1990.
14 15 16
Q.
In 1963, I believe somewhere
And during that time, were you
a member or d with any law firm? A.
I had a brief tenure with the
law firm of McCoy, Ming and Black.
18
lasted for less than a year.
19
practiced law then on my own.
20
Q.
Starting in 1990?
21
A.
No, no, no.
23
In
That lasted
17
22
In
And I
During the tenure
of my public life, did you ask? Q.
Yes.
That
24
A.
I had an affiliation with
page 8
1
McCoy, Ming and Black for less than a year;
2
and then after that, it was just my sole
3
practice.
4 5
Q.
Have you as an individual been
a party to any lawsuit?
6
A.
Yes.
7
Q.
When was that?
8
A.
Back in the late '50s,
9 10
something like '59, '60, I was involved in a personal injury case.
I was a plaintiff.
11
Q.
Anything else as an individual?
12
A.
Well, when you are in public
13
life, you get sued in your official
14
capacity and your individual capacity.
15
was involved in about 25,000 cases with me
16
as an individual.
17 18 19
Q.
Other than in your official
capacity? A.
I don't believe so.
I
20
Q.
As an attorney have you ever
21
been the subject of any disciplinary
22
proceeding?
23
A.
24
am sorry.
No.
Well, let me correct.
I
During one campaign, one of my
page 9
1
opponents brought a charge against me
2
before the ARDC, which was dismissed.
3
Q.
What is your current firm?
4
A.
Kusper and Raucci Chartered,
5
R-a-u-c-c-i, Chartered.
6
Q.
So Raucci?
7
A.
Raucci.
8
Q.
I have heard it a number of
9
ways.
10
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
11
Mr. Clinton, Sr. was pronouncing it
12
incorrectly, but I left it alone.
13
BY MR. WALDON:
Yes.
14
Q.
When did that firm start?
15
A.
In the '70s.
16
Q.
And briefly over the years,
17
what has been the size?
18
Has it been small?
19
been, just in summary?
20
A.
Has it fluctuated?
What's the largest it's
Depends on your definition of
21
"small."
We have been somewhere -- well,
22
when Andy Raucci and I started it, it was
23
the two of us.
24
I believe, ten; and we are now seven.
It got up to at one point,
page 10
1
Q.
And at times, to shorten
2
things, if I say KRC, can we use that as
3
Kusper and Raucci Chartered?
4
A.
Fine.
5
Q.
Are there officers and/or
6
directors of KRC?
7
A.
Yes.
8
Q.
And who are they?
9
A.
I am all of it.
10
Q.
Are you the decision maker on
11 12
all issues at KRC? A.
Well, I was, with my partner
13
Andy Raucci.
14
time.
15
But now with the advent of his retirement
16
some nine years ago, I guess, in the advent
17
of Stewart ing the firm, I still have a
18
two-share majority of the stock, but we
19
tly make decisions.
20 21
We were equal partners at the
I was president.
Q.
He was secretary.
tly you and Stewart, the
gentleman to your right?
22
A.
That's correct.
23
Q.
Is Stanley Kusper, III, an
24
attorney in your firm?
page 11
1
A.
Yes.
2
Q.
And what is his area of
3 4 5 6
practice? A.
Whatever we ask him to do, Jack
of all trades. Q.
Specifically with regard to
7
potential sub-tenants -- well, withdrawn.
8
KRC is in Suite 3400 at 30 North LaSalle in
9
Chicago, correct?
10
A.
Correct.
11
Q.
With regard to sub-tenants or
12
potential sub-tenants for Suite 3400, who
13
decides on whether to accept them or not?
14
A.
I do.
Or I did.
It would now
15
be, "We would."
16
my son Stewart, has only been a member of
17
the firm since, I believe, September
18
the 15th of 2010.
19
Q.
But I used to.
9-15-10, okay.
Stewart,
With regard to
20
KRC's staff, people working for you who are
21
not attorneys, over the years, what has
22
been the range of people, non-attorneys,
23
working for KRC?
24
A.
Four, five maximum.
page 12
1 2
Q.
And how many at the present
time, non-attorney employees of KRC?
3
A.
Four, I believe.
4
Q.
And is Donna Carlson one of
5
those?
6
A.
Yes.
7
Q.
And is Pamela, whose name
8
starts with a "G," one of those?
9
A.
Graniczny, G-r-a-n-i-c-z-n-y.
10
Q.
And who are the other two, for
11
the record?
12
A.
13
Then there is Pam, whose last
name I always mispronounce.
14
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
15
Prokaski, P-r-o-k-a-s-k-i.
16
BY MR. WALDON:
17 18 19 20
Q.
How long has she been with the
firm? A.
Approximately, a little longer
than Stewart, so mid-2010.
21
Q.
And who is the fourth staff
22
person?
23
A.
Our receptionist Maria.
24
Q.
What's Maria's last name?
page 13
1 2
A. Gonzalez.
Gonzalez?
No, it's not
Can't tell you.
3 4
Q.
How long has she been with the
firm?
5
A.
Very short period of time.
6
Q.
With regard to Pamela G., what
7
are her duties?
8
A.
Assistant, secretarial, right
10
Q.
Right arm to you?
11
A.
Um-hum.
12
Q.
That's a "yes"?
9
arm.
13 14
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
You got
to answer out loud in words.
15
THE WITNESS:
16
That's correct.
17
BY MR. WALDON:
18
Q.
Yes.
I am sorry.
When did Donna Carlson start
19
with KRC, approximately?
20
year.
You can make it a
21
A.
Nine, ten years ago.
22
Q.
And what is her job description
23
and duties?
24
A.
Office manager.
page 14
1 2
Q.
How long has she held that
position?
3
A.
Ever since we hired her.
4
Q.
In the time that she has been
5
the office manager of KRC, have you ever
6
heard any complaints about her from any of
7
your sub-tenants?
8
A.
Yes.
9
Q.
And can you generalize or can
10
you recall specifics about those
11
complaints?
12
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
13
to the form of the question.
14
overbroad and vague.
15
understand it.
16
Object
It's very
You can answer if you
THE WITNESS:
Generally,
17
tenants, sub-tenants complain when she
18
enforces the rules or asks for overdue rent
19
or any other matters that she deems
20
appropriate to bring to my attention -- to
21
our attention now.
22 23 24
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Have you ever received any
complaints about Donna from other KRC staff
page 15
1
people?
2
A.
I can't recall any.
3
Q.
Have you ever received any
4
complaints about Donna from any other KRC
5
attorneys?
6
A.
I can't recall any.
7
Q.
With regard to Pamela G., if I
8
could call her that, to your knowledge,
9
what does she know about the facts or
10
issues relating to this?
11
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
12
to the form of the question.
13
and overbroad.
14
answer.
15
Object
It's vague
If you understand, you can
THE WITNESS:
She has knowledge
16
of some of the matters that came up which
17
resulted in some of the actions that we
18
took, yes.
19 20
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Can you recall any,
21
specifically, that she has knowledge of or
22
had involvement with?
23 24
A.
The urination on the floors of
the bathrooms.
page 16
1
Q.
Anything else?
2
A.
At this time, I can't think of
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
anything else. Q.
How long has KRC been in Suite
3400 at 30 North LaSalle? A.
Forever.
About 34 -- 33,
34 years. Q.
And how many attorney offices
are there, ballpark, or exactly if you know, in Suite 3400?
11
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
12
to the form of the question.
13
Are you talking about now?
14
about ever?
Object
It's vague. Are you talking
15
MR. WALDON:
Now.
16
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
You mean
17
now currently being used by K & R
18
attorneys?
19
about the fluctuation in attorney numbers,
20
so I am just trying to be precise.
21
BY MR. WALDON:
22 23
Q.
You asked a prior question
At the current time, how many
attorney offices are there in Suite 3400?
24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Still
page 17
1
object to the form of the question.
2
still vague the way you have worded it.
3
you understand, you can answer.
4
THE WITNESS:
5
thereabouts.
6
BY MR. WALDON:
7 8
Q.
It's If
Could be 17.
I believe 18, Could be 19.
Did KRC's -- who is the
landlord of KRC, Tishman Spire?
9
A.
Tishman Spire.
10
Q.
And did KRC sign a master lease
11
with Tishman Spire at some point?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
When KRC moved in 34, 33,
14
34 years ago, with whom did it sign a
15
lease?
16
A.
I believe that it was
17
Prudential Insurance Company at the time.
18
They had taken the building over from the
19
original developers.
20 21 22
Q.
And when did Tishman Spire take
over? A.
When Sam Zell sold his
23
holdings, I believe.
This is what, three,
24
four years ago maybe, give or take?
Let me
page 18
1
correct that.
2
sold and then sold to Tishman Spire, so
3
Tishman Spire's been around for a couple,
4
three years maximum.
5 6 7
Q.
Somebody came in after Zell
Has the initial lease that KRC
signed been amended at any time? A.
Yes.
8
Q.
How many times?
9
A.
Approximately three, maybe four
10
times.
11
Q.
And do you refer to that as a
12
master lease?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
And is it your understanding
15
that in the discovery process in this case,
16
the production of that master lease and
17
amendments has been requested and that the
18
defendant has objected to producing it?
19
A.
20 21
Yes, I am aware of that. MR. WALDON:
Would you mark
this as Plaintiff's Exhibit 1, please?
22
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1
23
was marked for
24
identification.)
page 19
1 2
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at what has
3
been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 1, and tell
4
me if you recognize that as Defendant's
5
Response to Plaintiff's Request for
6
Production of Documents?
7
A.
That's the title it bears.
8
Q.
If you would turn, please, to
9
-- there is no page number, so one, two,
10
three, fourth page, the request and the
11
response to Number 5.
12
of the page.
13
master lease and any amendments thereto and
14
then the answer?
It's at the bottom
See request Number 5 for the
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
Do you see that the one
17
objection is that the request is overbroad?
18
Do you see that?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
How many pages is the master
21 22
lease and the amendments? A.
I haven't looked at that master
23
lease in a long time.
The only thing I
24
have been looking at is the amendments to
page 20
1
it.
2
three, four or five pages.
3
could not even conjecture with any
4
reasonable accuracy as to how long it is.
5
And the amendments run sometimes
Q.
Overall, I
And do you have any
6
understanding as to why it would be unduly
7
burdensome to have someone copy and have
8
that master lease and amendments produced?
9
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
10
going to object to the form of the
11
question.
12
opinions of someone who is here as a fact
13
witness.
14
want to take up a discovery issue with me,
15
you can do it in court with the Illinois
16
Supreme Court rules and 201(k), in
17
particular.
18
witness and ask him about the legal bases
19
and factual bases for objections I have
20
made.
21
instructing him not to answer.
22 23
I am
It is totally improper to ask
I am attorney of record.
If you
You don't get to harass a
If you want to persist in this, I am
He is not here as an attorney. He is here as a fact witness only.
24
MR. WALDON:
A fact witness can
page 21
1
testify as to how lengthy or not the
2
document is that's at issue.
3
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
And he
4
gave you that.
5
opine on the bases of the objections that
6
have been leveled.
7
a Rule 201(k), not in a fact witness
8
deposition.
9
you if you ever request it, but you have
10
15 16 17
I am happy to have that with
MR. WALDON:
Do you stand by
your attorney's comments?
13 14
That's proper only for
not.
11 12
You are now asking him to
THE WITNESS:
I do.
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
At the current time, how many
sub-tenants are in Suite 3400? A.
Approximately 14.
18
MR. WALDON:
Let's mark this,
19
if you would, please, as Plaintiff's
20
Exhibit 13.
21
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 13
22
was marked for
23
identification.)
24
page 22
1 2
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
I have some premarked exhibits.
3
Let me show you what's been marked
4
Plaintiff's Exhibit 13, a letter from your
5
counsel from a little bit ago today sending
6
over some supplemental production of
7
documents.
8
turn to the last page, please, which is
9
marked at the lower right "1208."
10 11
I would ask you if you would
And do
you know what this document indicates? MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
For the
12
record, before he answers, my
13
secretary/assistant did not mark,
14
obviously, what's been redacted here, which
15
is the rental pertaining to the other
16
ten apartments, sub-tenants on here, so it
17
should have been so marked.
18
MR. WALDON:
19
I presumed
that that's what that was.
20
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
21
sorry.
22
what it was.
I am
You can answer the question if you
23 24
I apologize.
THE WITNESS:
He wanted to know
how many subtenants there are.
page 23
1 2
MR. WALDON:
Why don't you just
read back the question, please?
3
(Question read back by the
4
reporter, as requested.)
5
THE WITNESS:
6
"Leases 2008/2013."
7
indicates 21 sub-tenants.
8
BY MR. WALDON:
9 10
Q.
Well, it's titled,
And I think it
It says "leases," but these are
subleases?
11
A.
That's correct.
12
Q.
And are they in, roughly,
13
chronological order?
14
A.
I have no idea.
15
Q.
Toward the bottom on the left,
16
I see "490-591."
Do you know if there is
17
another one beyond that?
18
off.
It's sort of cut
Or do you know, counsel?
19
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
20
You should have called me.
21
checked.
22
BY MR. WALDON:
23 24
I don't.
I would have
But I will check on a break.
Q.
Okay.
Are sub-tenants of Suite
3400 with, I presume, lease beginning
page 24
1
from 2008 and to some extent -- and the
2
later ones running to 2013?
3
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
4
to the form of the question.
It's vague.
5
If you understand and you know, you can
6
answer.
7
THE WITNESS:
I do not know, but
8
I know what the caption says, "leases
9
2008/2001."
I don't have individual
10
knowledge about individual leases.
11
MR. WALDON:
12
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Group Exhibit 2.
13
(Plaintiff's Group Exhibit
14
No. 2 was marked for
15
identification.)
16 17
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at Group
18
Exhibit 2, which bears the defendant's
19
document production number 169 through 200
20
and appears to be four subleases with
21
regard to Suite 3400 with Kevin Mix, Robert
22
Karr, John Martin and David Stringer.
23
Please take a quick look.
24
look to be those subleases?
And do these
page 25
1
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
I am
2
going to caution the witness, you don't
3
have to take a quick look.
4
long a look as you need to to familiarize
5
yourself with the documents.
6
in your testimony.
You can take as
Be confident
7 8
THE WITNESS: with Kevin Mix.
9 10
There is a lease
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: Sublease.
11
THE WITNESS:
Sublease, I should
12
say.
13
Stringer, sublease with Robert W. Karr and
14
a sublease with John C. Martin LLC.
15
BY MR. WALDON:
16
There is a sublease with David N.
Q.
Okay.
Just one point.
The
17
second one, which appears with David N.
18
Stringer --
19 20
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
I think
that's page 177.
21
MR. WALDON:
That's right, yes,
22
177.
A quick look, I don't see Stringer's
23
name on Document 1208 on PX 13.
24
be identified under some other name, do you
Would that
page 26
1 2
know? MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Well,
3
look.
For the record, I am going to note,
4
some of these are noted by first names.
5
THE WITNESS:
490-49 at the end
6
of the first column has "David."
7
could be David.
8
BY MR. WALDON:
That
9
Q.
That could be Stringer?
10
A.
It could be Stringer.
The one
11
above it, for instance 490-47, that's Gail.
12
That's Weiss.
13
first and last names here.
14
Q.
So there are mixtures of
With regard to -- and your
15
Document Production Request says that
16
"Sample subleases have been produced."
17
With regard to Document 1208 in Plaintiff's
18
Exhibit 13, do you know if all of those
19
subleases were in the same form as the four
20
subleases that constitute Group Exhibit 2?
21
A.
I do not know.
22
Q.
With regard to the sublease
23
forms that are in Plaintiff's Group
24
Exhibit 2, who drafted that sublease?
page 27
1 2
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: sorry.
I am
Which one?
3
THE WITNESS:
These four.
I
4
think the form was put together by Stanley
5
Kusper, III.
6
BY MR. WALDON:
7 8 9 10 11
Q.
And I am not sure I asked.
How
long has he been with KRC? A.
I'd have to conjecture.
It's
about 9, 10 years. Q.
Now, you have got Group
12
Exhibit 2?
Just look at the first page.
13
The paragraph 2 refers to "KRC's master
14
lease," correct?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
And KRC is, in fact, the tenant
17
for Suite 3400 on the master lease?
18
A.
That's correct.
19
Q.
And Suite 3400 is described as
20
"the Premises," capital "P" in quote, is
21
that correct, at the end of paragraph 2?
22
A.
Yes.
23 24
Q.
And in paragraph 3 of the first
page of this sublease, paragraph 3 states
page 28
1
that what's being subleased are "the
2
Premises," capital "P," is that correct?
3
A.
Yes.
4
Q.
So if the premises are the
5
subject of the master lease and it's
6
mentioned in the same term as the paragraph
7
3, how is it that the master lease is not
8
relevant to the issues in this case?
9
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
10
to the form of the question.
I am going to
11
go back to the same thing that we talked
12
about before.
13
the objections that were made to your
14
document request, you need to take it up
15
pursuant to the Illinois Supreme Court
16
rules, which is not doing it in the context
17
of questioning a witness who is here as a
18
fact witness, but rather talking to me as
If you would like to discuss
19
counsel of record.
20
If you want to persist in this,
21
I will make the objection.
I will instruct
22
him not to answer.
23
myself available for the same 201(k) that I
24
invited you to have earlier when you did
And I am happy to make
page 29
1
the same thing with this witness.
2
BY MR. WALDON:
3
Q.
Prior to this case for which
4
you are here today, has KRC been in any
5
litigation involving this form of the
6
sublease?
7
A.
8 9
No. MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 3.
10
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3
11
was marked for
12
identification.)
13 14 15
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Take a look at Plaintiff's
Exhibit 3, please.
The first question is,
16
this is the sublease with Edward X.
17
Clinton, P.C., is that correct?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
And this is the same form as
20
the four samples that were in Group
21
Exhibit 2, is that correct?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Do you think it was reasonable
24
for the Clinton firm to rely upon the
page 30
1 2
of the lease that you drafted? A.
3
I can't answer that. MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
4
to the form of the question.
5
BY MR. WALDON:
6
Q.
I object
In connection with Plaintiff's
7
Exhibit 3, the Clinton firm's sublease,
8
what was your involvement, if any, in
9
negotiation and/or g or discussion of
10 11
this sublease? MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
12
to the form the of the question.
13
vague and ambiguous.
14
you can answer.
15
If you understand,
THE WITNESS:
16
g portion of it.
17
BY MR. WALDON:
18
Q.
It's
I understand the I signed it.
Were you involved at all in any
19
discussions about the sublease prior to
20
your g it?
21
A.
With whom?
22
Q.
Okay.
Did you have any
23
discussions with Mr. Clinton, Jr. or
24
Mr. Clinton, Sr. before you signed the
page 31
1
sublease?
2
A.
No.
3
Q.
Did you have any discussions
4
with Mary Winch of the Clinton firm before
5
g the sublease?
6
A.
No.
7
Q.
It's dated February 20, 2009.
8
And please turn to page 6.
Is that your
9
signature as the president of KRC?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
And you believe you signed it
12
on or about February 20, 2009?
13
A.
That's the date it bears.
14
Q.
Do you recall what time of day
15
you may have signed it?
16
A.
No, sir.
17
Q.
Prior to your g this
18
lease, did you have any discussion about
19
the sublease with Stanley Kusper, III?
20
A.
I don't believe so.
21
Q.
And Stewart Kusper was not
22
there in 2009, correct?
23
A.
That's correct.
24
Q.
Prior to your g this
page 32
1
sublease, Plaintiff's Exhibit 3, did you
2
have any discussion about it with Donna
3
Carlson?
4
A.
Yes.
5 6 7
Q.
And when and what was
discussed? A.
When?
It was prior to the
8
execution of the lease.
It was during the
9
time that she was having discussions, I
10
believe, with Mary Winch, who was
11
negotiating on behalf of the Clintons.
12
being involved to the extent that
13
the Clintons were seeking two offices,
14
larger, as large as they could be.
15
were looking for larger space, and we only
16
had one that was available.
17
I
They
And I undertook discussions
18
with one of our other sub-tenants who was
19
having some difficulty with the practice
20
and finances and persuaded that person to
21
vacate her office and move to another
22
office in the suite, which was smaller and
23
less expensive in rent, so that we could
24
have the availability of a second office;
page 33
1
and that is the office which Mr. Clinton,
2 3
Sr. now occupies. Q.
And with regard to any
4
discussions with Donna Carlson, anything
5
else, , rent, anything about the
6
sublease that you recall?
7 8 9
A.
She just indicated to me what
the were that they had agreed to. Q.
Do you recall anything else
10
about any other discussions with Donna
11
Carlson about this sublease prior to it
12
being signed?
13
A.
I can't recall at this time.
14
Q.
For example, one detail?
Did
15
she tell you anything that anyone from the
16
Clinton firm said to her about what they
17
were looking for, other than the two
18
offices that you have testified to?
19 20 21
A.
I don't recall.
I really
don't. Q.
Besides Donna Carlson, did you
22
have any discussions with anyone else,
23
staff or attorneys, at KRC about this
24
sublease, other than what you have just
page 34
1
testified to?
2
A.
I don't recall.
3
Q.
Has the Clinton firm made all
4
of its rent payments under the sublease,
5
Plaintiff's Exhibit 3?
6
A.
I believe they have.
7
Q.
Are you aware of anything that
8
the Clinton firm has not done pursuant to
9
the of the sublease Plaintiff's
10
Exhibit 3?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
What is that?
13
A.
They haven't furnished us with
14
Workers Compensation insurance coverage.
15
That was provided for in the lease.
16
don't believe they have given us the
17
certificate.
18
Q.
19
paragraph 12?
20
referring to?
And that's pursuant to Is that what you are
I
21
A.
Yes, sir, that is correct.
22
Q.
12(2)?
23
A.
That is correct.
24
And I am not
sure whether or not they are current on
page 35
1
their liability coverage.
2
Q.
So your testimony is that the
3
certificate of insurance hasn't been
4
supplied, and you don't know whether or not
5
the insurance is actually in place, or do
6
you?
7
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
I object
8
to the form of the question.
9
mischaracterizing what he just testified
10 11 12
You are
to. MR. WALDON:
Well, I am trying
to clarify it.
13
THE WITNESS:
I do know that
14
they have not furnished us with the
15
certificate of insurance for Workers
16
Compensation.
17
they are current on their liability
I do not know whether or not
18
insurance certification.
19 20
MR. WALDON:
Would you mark
this, please, as Plaintiff's Exhibit 4?
21
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4
22
was marked for
23
identification.)
24
page 36
1 2
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at what has
3
been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 4, the
4
Defendant's Answer, Affirmative Defenses
5
and Counterclaim in this case.
6
seen this document before?
Have you
7
A.
Yes.
8
Q.
If you would turn, please, to
9
page 8, and direct your attention to the
10
allegation and answer with regard to
11
paragraph 19, allegation that, "The Clinton
12
firm has performed all material obligations
13
required of it under the lease."
And after
14
the objection at the end, it states, "K &
15
R," which is KRC, "denies the allegations."
16
Do you know the basis for the denial of
17
paragraph 19?
18
A.
Well, I just indicated to you
19
that there is a question concerning the
20
insurance coverage, and I imagine that
21
might be the answer.
22
this, so I don't know.
23 24
Q.
But I didn't certify
To your knowledge, do you know
of anything else besides the insurance
page 37
1 2 3 4 5
issue you just mentioned? A.
At this time, I can't think of
anything. Q.
Going back to -- just keep it
handy -- the sublease, Exhibit 3.
6
A.
Yes.
7
Q.
So to your knowledge, what did
8
KRC intend to sublet to the Clinton firm in
9
Suite 3400?
10
A.
Two offices and one work
11 12
station. Q.
In addition to those spaces,
13
did KRC intend that the Clinton firm would
14
have access to and use of the hallways in
15
the Suite 3400?
16 17 18
A.
The sublease doesn't say that
it does. Q.
Well, I am not asking.
My
19
question is with regard to KRC's intent or
20
understanding.
21
Clinton firm personnel would have access to
22
and use of the hallways in Suite 3400?
23 24
A.
Did you understand that the
They would have permission to
use the hallways in Suite 3400, yes.
page 38
1
Q.
2
closet space?
3
A.
4
do that, too.
5
Q.
6
thing?
And same thing with closets,
They would have permission to
And the reception area, same
7 8
A.
They would have permission to
utilize that service, also.
9
Q.
And the copy room?
10
A.
The answer is same.
11
Q.
Same.
12
A.
They would have permission to
13
And the kitchen?
use the kitchen, yes.
14
Q.
And at the time the lease was
15
filed -- sublease was signed, I am sorry --
16
access to and use of two internal bathrooms
17
in Suite 3400?
18
A.
19
lease.
20
that.
21 22
Q.
They would have permission to use
You say they would have
permission to use that?
23 24
That is not included in the
A.
It is not part of the lease,
but we would grant them permission to do
page 39
1 2 3
so. Q.
And the same with conference
rooms in Suite 3400, have access to and use
4 5
of the conference rooms? A.
They and all the other
6
sub-tenants would have our permission to
7
utilize those, yes, according to the rules
8
and procedure we have for that.
9
Q.
And after the Clinton firm
10
moved into Suite 3400, and certainly for a
11
number of months thereafter, Clinton firm
12
personnel did have access to and use of
13
those common areas that we were just
14
talking about, is that correct?
15 16 17
A.
They had permission to use
them, yes. Q.
With regard to this type of
18
arrangement in Suite 3400 and your other
19
sub-tenants, would you call that a shared
20
office arrangement?
21
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
22
to the form of the question.
It's not a
23
legal term.
24
sublease, and it's not a term in the law.
It's not a term in the
page 40
1
Subject to that, if you understand, you can
2
answer.
3
THE WITNESS:
4
the question.
5
by that.
6
BY MR. WALDON:
7 8
Q.
I don't understand
I don't know what you mean
Have you ever heard the term
"shared office arrangement"?
9
A.
No.
10
Q.
Have you ever heard of other
11
lawyers subleasing space where a number of
12
law firms occupy the same suite and use the
13
same common areas?
14
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
15
to the form of the question.
16
understand, you can answer.
17
THE WITNESS:
18
the question.
19
BY MR. WALDON:
20
Q.
Object
If you
I don't understand
Have you ever been in a law
21
firm where there is more than one firm or
22
more than one counsel occupying the same
23
suite?
24
A.
Except for Kusper and Raucci?
page 41
1
No.
2
Q.
In July of 2009, do you recall
3
correspondence between KRC and the Clinton
4
firm with regard to an issue of food in the
5
work area?
6
A.
7 8
Yes. MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 5.
9
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5
10
was marked for
11
identification.)
12
BY MR. WALDON:
13
Q.
Take a look at that, please,
14
for a second, or whatever you need to read
15
it.
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Do you recognize this letter?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Do you have any personal
20
knowledge of the incident to which it
21
refers with regard to food and the
22
secretarial area?
23 24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
to the form of the question.
page 42
1 2
MR. WALDON:
Would you repeat
that question, please?
3
(Question read back by the
4
reporter, as requested.)
5 6
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Do you have any personal
7
knowledge of what happened that's the
8
subject of this letter?
9
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
And what do you recall
11 12
happening? A.
It was an incident where a
13
birthday cake was placed on the countertop
14
of the work station that the Clintons rent.
15
And people were partaking of the birthday
16
cake and, quite frankly, making a mess on
17
the floor around it.
18
Q.
And do you know if Donna
19
Carlson or anyone else of KRC talked to
20
anyone at the Clinton firm before sending
21
this letter?
22
A.
23 24
I have no idea. MR. WALDON:
Let's mark the
next exhibit, please, Plaintiff's
page 43
1
Exhibit 6.
2
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6
3
was marked for
4
identification.)
5 6
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at
7
Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 and tell me if you
8
recognize that document.
9
A.
Yes, I do.
10
Q.
And was the letter being
11
returned Plaintiff's Exhibit 5, if you
12
recall?
13
A.
I assume, but I can't say for
14
certain because it doesn't reference in the
15
writing here what letter it is; but I
16
assume that that's what it is.
17 18
Q.
And is that -- is the
handwriting yours?
19
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
Oh, above your handwriting, who
21
is Stephanie Capps, if you recall?
22
A.
I have no idea.
23
Q.
In the first line under
24
"Gentlemen," does it say -- and it's fairly
page 44
1
legible writing -- "Your hostility is
2
troubling and certainly not warranted"?
3
that what it says?
4
A.
That's what it says.
5
Q.
What, quote/unquote,
6 7 8
Is
"hostility" were you referring to? A.
What's missing between the last
two exhibits that you handed me is the
9
letter that was sent out, or memorandum --
10
I don't know what it is -- by Mr. Clinton,
11
Sr. to all of the sub-tenants and to K & R,
12
dealing with the item of correspondence
13
that we addressed in the cake incident.
14 15 16
Q.
And to the best of your
recollection, what did that memo say? A.
Without having it in front of
17
me, I couldn't describe it; but it was, I
18
think, accurately reflected in my first
19
sentence of this Exhibit 6, "hostility."
20 21 22 23 24
Q.
Do you recall, generally, what
the memo said or points made or anything? A.
Generally speaking, it blasted
K & R for enforcing the rules. Q.
Did you have any discussion --
page 45
1
well, this handwritten note on the memo to
2
Donna Carlson, I presume, was given to the
3
Clinton firm, is that correct?
4
A.
Yes, sir.
5
Q.
And after it was given to the
6
Clinton firm, did you have any discussion
7
about your note with anyone at the Clinton
8
firm?
9
A.
No, not that I recall.
10
Q.
And why is that?
11 12
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: to the form of the question.
13 14
THE WITNESS: for itself.
15 16
The letter speaks
There was no reply. MR. WALDON:
Please mark this
one as Plaintiff's Exhibit 7.
17
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 7
18
was marked for
19
identification.)
20 21 22
Object
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at
Plaintiff's Exhibit 7.
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
Is this a memo you received
page 46
1
from Mr. Clinton, Jr. on or about the date
2
it bears, August 5, 2009?
3
A.
Yes.
4
Q.
On page 2, they are not
5
numbered but the one, two, three, four,
6
fifth paragraph down, it states that you
7
personally visited Mary and apologized for
8
the letter that your office manager sent.
9
Is that accurate?
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
Did you talk with Mary?
So are
12
you saying it's not accurate because you
13
didn't apologize, or are you saying you
14
didn't talk to Mary at all?
15
A.
I answered your question.
16
asked was that accurate?
17
not."
You
I said, "No, it's
18
Q.
What is inaccurate about it?
19
A.
It's not correct.
20
Q.
So, did you talk to Mary Winch
21
about the birthday cake incident?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
And do you recall approximately
24
when after it occurred or vis-a-vis these
page 47
1 2
other letters? A.
No.
But this letter indicates
3
that it was after the letter was sent by
4
the office manager, so it was sometime
5
after that.
6
Q.
7
And so you didn't apologize, is
that your recollection, for Donna's letter?
8
A.
I didn't apologize for the
9
letter, no.
10
Q.
What did you say to Mary?
11
A.
I said I was sorry that the
12
incident was causing her any difficulty
13
because she was only following the
14
instructions of her superiors.
15
like Mary Winch.
16
Q.
I happen to
With regard to that discussion
17
that you just testified about with regard
18
to Mary Winch, have you had any other such
19
discussions with any other subtenant or its
20
personnel with regard to any conduct or
21
action that Donna Carlson has taken, if you
22
can recall?
23 24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: to the form of the question.
Object
Incredibly
page 48
1
vague an overbroad.
2
impossible to answer, but if you can
3
understand it, you may answer.
4
I think it's
THE WITNESS:
Would you rephrase
5
that and, kind of, get to the point that
6
you are trying to make?
7
understand, and I can't give you a blanket
8
answer to that question, not in the form in
9
which it's phrased.
I don't
Have I talked to
10
sub-tenants about Donna Carlson?
11
relation to what?
12
are after.
13
whatever question you have.
14
BY MR. WALDON:
15
Q.
In
I don't know what you
I will be happy to answer
I am interested in any action
16
that Donna has taken that any sub-tenant
17
had a problem with and you talked to the
18
sub-tenant to say you were sorry about what
19
Donna had done or was sorry about the
20
impact of it, something like that, anything
21
similar.
22
A.
Not that I recall, no, sir.
23
Q.
At some point in 2009, KRC
24
denied its sub-tenants access to the two
page 49
1
internal bathrooms, is that correct?
2 3
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: to the form of the question.
4 5
Object
MR. WALDON:
What's the
objection?
6
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Because
7
you are characterizing with argumentative
8
.
9
in my estimation.
10
"Denied" is not an appropriate term
BY MR. WALDON:
11
Q.
Can you answer the question?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
You don't recall that?
14
A.
I can't answer the question the
15
way it's phrased.
16 17
MR. WALDON:
Mark this as
Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, please.
18
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 8
19
was marked for
20
identification.)
21 22
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Take a look, please, at what's
23
been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, and tell
24
me if you are familiar with that document.
page 50
1
A.
Yes.
2
Q.
And in the second to third line
3
of the first paragraph -- well, this is a
4
memo from you, correct?
5
A.
That's correct.
6
Q.
To all of the sub-tenants?
7
A.
That's correct.
8
Q.
Dated August 25, 2009, is that
9 10
correct? A.
That's the date it bears.
11
Q.
And in the first paragraph,
12
second and third sentence, your memo
13
states, "It has been necessary to return
14
the bathroom facilities to their original
15
intended purpose, usage by KRC employees
16
and associates," is that correct?
17
A.
That's what it says.
18
Q.
So by virtue of this memo,
19
weren't you denying access to the other
20
sub-tenants to the internal bathrooms?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
How could they use the internal
23
bathrooms when you said it's only for the
24
usage for KRC personnel?
page 51
1
A.
They used it by our permission.
2
It wasn't a denial.
3
of no permission.
4 5
Q.
It was a reassertion
First of all, there are two
internal bathrooms, correct, in Suite 3400?
6
A.
That's correct.
7
Q.
And one right as you are going
8
into or coming out of the den conference
9
room, correct?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
And the other one close by?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
And the internal conference
14
rooms, the larger one, everyone calls it
15
"the den," is that correct?
16
A.
That's correct.
17
Q.
And then there is a smaller
18
conference room?
19
A.
That is correct.
20
Q.
You have referred several times
21
to KRC giving permission to use things,
22
such as internal bathrooms.
23
writing at any time to any sub-tenant,
24
giving them permission to use any of the
Was that in
page 52
1
common areas?
2
A.
No.
3
Q.
So what, if anything, gave
4
sub-tenants permission to use these common
5
areas?
6 7
A.
They were informed that they
could use them by our permission, yes.
8
Q.
By Donna?
9
A.
Probably.
10
Q.
All right.
Referring back to
11
Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, the memo refers to
12
"a series of most unfortunate, uncorrected
13
and repeated events."
Do you see that?
14
A.
Yes, sir.
15
Q.
What does that refer to?
16
A.
The discovery on a number of
17
occasions of urination which ended up on
18
the floors of the bathrooms, which created
19
an unsanitary, unhealthy and unsafe
20
condition.
21 22
Q.
Both internal bathrooms that
this was discovered?
23
A.
I believe that's correct.
24
Q.
So who discovered the
page 53
1 2
conditions that you have just described? A.
It was reported to me by Donna
3
Carlson, and I believe I also had a
4
discussion concerning it with Pam G., as
5
you referred to her.
6
believe that our receptionist at that time
7
also reported it to, I believe, Donna
8
Carlson indicating that she slipped and
9
almost fell and hurt herself.
10 11 12 13
Q.
And also, I do
And what is that receptionist
-- former receptionist, you say? A.
Yes.
It was a couple of
receptionists ago.
14
Q.
What was her name?
15
A.
I can't right now.
16
Q.
And what, if anything, do you
17
recall about the details of her slipping
18
and almost hurting herself?
19 20 21 22 23
A.
I didn't get the details of it.
I just got the report that it happened. Q.
And what steps, if any, did you
take after that, after hearing that report? A.
In an effort to not stigmatize
24
anybody, my view of -- my observation that
page 54
1
it occurred only after the Clintons had
2
begun their tenancy, sub-tenancy, with our
3
firm, that it might be logical to assume
4
that because of the physical condition of
5
Mr. Clinton, Sr., his difficulty in
6
walking, stability issues possibly, and
7
whatever, that it could be that he was the
8
individual who may have had a directional
9
challenge from time to time using the
10 11
bathrooms. So as not to embarrass
12
Mr. Clinton, Jr. by discussing the matter
13
about his father, I went to Curtis Ross,
14
who is a good friend of the Clintons, and
15
came over approximately the same time from
16
this other suite where they were all at,
17
and sat with him and asked him if he could
18
discretely and gently discuss the matter
19
with Mr. Clinton, Jr., since I didn't know
20
Mr. Clinton, Jr. that well, and possibly
21
see if that was what had been occurring.
22
No one ever got back to me
23
about that.
And it continued.
And we
24
eventually rescinded the permission to
page 55
1 2 3 4 5 6
utilize the bathrooms. Q.
Did you ever go back to
Mr. Ross to follow up? A.
No.
I didn't find it was
incumbent upon me to do so. Q.
Do any documents exist with
7
regard -- besides Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 --
8
with regard to the decision, and was it
9
your decision to take the steps outlined in
10
Plaintiff's Exhibit 8?
11
A.
Absolutely.
12
Q.
And are there any other
13
documents relating to that incident or any
14
inspection or anything with regard to the
15
condition of the bathrooms as you have
16
described them?
17
A.
When?
18
Q.
Prior to sending out the memo
19 20
At what time?
on August 25, 2009. A.
I do believe there had been
21
another incident, and that's what prompted
22
us to do what we did.
23 24
Q.
No.
I am asking about
documents.
page 56
1
A.
Documents.
2
Q.
Notes of an inspection or
3
anything?
4
A.
5
of any.
6
Q.
No, I don't -- I am not aware
Let's go back for one second to
7
Plaintiff's Exhibit 13, another document
8
that was produced this afternoon, the first
9
one after the letter bearing number 1202,
10
an e-mail from May 29, 2009 talking about
11
cleaning inspections.
12
My question will be if you know to what
Take a look at that.
13
this refers.
14
A.
We had --
15
Q.
What cleaning?
16
A.
-- an outbreak, if you will, of
17
fruit flies and other forms of vermin
18
because of careless use of food in the work
19
stations.
20
come in and do their thing, as you will, to
21
help rid us of the problem.
22
and they came back on a couple of other
23
occasions to do inspections to be sure that
24
that occurrence was still not taking place.
We had to have the exterminators
And they did,
page 57
1
And this is right around the same time
2
where the cake incident took place, roughly
3
speaking.
4
Q.
I am not sure exactly when. So this has nothing to do with
5
the internal bathroom issue that we were
6
just discussing?
7
A.
No.
8
Q.
Any similar documents that you
9
know of with regard to the bathroom
10
incidents we were just talking about, about
11
clean up or redoing or anything with regard
12
to that?
13
A.
No documents.
The only thing
14
is, in my conversations with Pam G., that
15
she went in and cleaned up a couple of
16
times to get rid of the spill.
17
Q.
All right.
We have been at it
18
about an hour.
19
and let's you and I talk for a second.
20
Why don't we take a break
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
It's
21
been more than an hour because I have got a
22
stop watch.
23 24
page 58
1
(After a short break, the
2
deposition resumed as
3
follows:)
4 5
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Let's go back for a second to
6
Plaintiff's Exhibit 4, the Answer to the
7
Complaint, and go to page 39 -- I am sorry
8
-- page 22, paragraph 39.
9
have a question about the first sentence,
10
but go ahead and read it to the extent you
11
wish.
12
A.
Number 39?
13
Q.
Number 39.
I am going to
And this is in the
14
beginning of your Affirmative Defenses,
15
just to give you a context.
16
A.
Okay.
17
Q.
My question with regard to the
18
first sentence which refers to one or more
19
persons slipping -- time out for a second.
20
(There was a brief
21
interruption.)
22 23 24
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Paragraph 39 in the Affirmative
Defense refers to "one or more persons
page 59
1
slipping on urine on the floor in one of
2
the bathrooms and almost falling and
3
injuring themselves."
You had testified
4
about the former receptionist, correct?
5
A.
Um-hum.
6
Q.
Does this allegation, this
7
sentence in paragraph 39, refer to that
8
person?
9
A.
I don't know.
I didn't attest
10
to this.
11
incident that I was aware of, and I heard
12
there was another incident, but I am not
13
sure.
14
I do know that we had that one
Q.
Okay.
Do you any
15
details with regard to the potential second
16
incident?
17
A.
No.
18
am not sure.
19
Q.
Okay.
I think I just told you, I
We will put that back
20
then.
21
memo, Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, did the
22
Clinton firm object?
23 24
With regard to your August 25th
A.
I do believe so. MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
page 60
1
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 9.
2
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 9
3
was marked for
4
identification.)
5 6
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at
7
Plaintiff's Exhibit 9.
And the first
8
question would be, did you receive it?
9
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
And do you see in the first
11
paragraph -- and this is from Mr. Clinton,
12
Jr., correct?
13
A.
14 15
It's not signed, but it is --
it bears his name. Q.
And in the first paragraph, the
16
letter states that, "The Clinton firm
17
disagrees with the August 25th memo with
18
regard to the internal bathrooms and
19
believes it to be a breach of the
20
sublease."
21
A.
Do you see that? That's what it says.
22
Q.
Did you ever talk with
23
Mr. Clinton, Jr. after receipt of this
24
letter about the statement that the Clinton
page 61
1
firm thought it to be a breach of the
2
sublease?
3
A.
No.
4
Q.
In the second paragraph, it
5
states that, "For many years prior to
6
August 25th, the interior bathrooms were
7
open and available to all tenants, guests
8
and Kusper personnel."
9
A.
Yes.
We granted permission for
10
all of our sub-tenants all of those years
11
to utilize them, as well as their guests
12
and our personnel, because we never had
13
incidents of urination on the floors, which
14
would cause a hazard.
15
permission to do so.
16
Q.
So yes, they had
In the third paragraph, it
17
states that, "Prior to g the lease,
18
the office manager informed the Clinton
19
firm that they would be able to use the
20
interior bathrooms."
21
far as you know?
Is that accurate, so
22
A.
That's what the letter says.
23
Q.
Do you know if that, one way or
24
the other, if that's an accurate statement?
page 62
1
A.
I was not present during that
2
discussion, but I would imagine that she
3
probably, if she did say that, indicated
4
that there would be permission for them to
5
use it, yes.
6
Q.
With regard to the -- they are
7
not numbered, but one, two, three, four,
8
fifth paragraph down, it states that,
9
" of this firm and everyone
10
associated with us were very careful to
11
clean and maintain the bathrooms."
12
know if that is an accurate statement or
13
not?
14
A.
I have no idea.
Do you
15
Q.
The next paragraph states that,
16
"In March of '09, toilet in the small
17
bathroom had a plunger next to it."
18
recall seeing that, or do you know if
19
that's an accurate statement?
Do you
20
A.
That's accurate.
21
Q.
And the paragraph after that,
22
refers to a substantial burden on a
23
Ms. Bryant.
24
A.
Is that Andre Bryant? I believe that's to who he
page 63
1
refers, yes.
2
Q.
And is it your recollection or
3
memory that she was handicapped in some
4
way?
5
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
6
to the form of the question.
7
understand, you can answer.
8 9
THE WITNESS:
Object
If you
If you observe
Miss Bryant, you see that she walks with a
10
cane.
11
BY MR. WALDON:
12
Q.
Did you ever talk to Miss
13
Bryant after the August 25th memo e
14
of the internal bathrooms or not?
15 16 17
A.
No.
She never approached me.
I never approached her. Q.
So given -- so, with regard to
18
this Plaintiff's Exhibit 9, this letter, do
19
you state you did not respond to
20
Mr. Clinton, Jr., is that correct?
21
A.
The letter is dated September
22
the 4th, 2009.
23
this letter because there was no need to.
24
Q.
I have not responded to
So is it correct to say that
page 64
1
then, after receiving this letter, you
2
didn't inform anyone at the Clinton firm
3
that you thought there was some sort of
4
mutual mistake in the lease -- the
5
sublease?
6 7
A.
The letter didn't address any
legal rights that they attained under the
8
sublease; and no, there was no conversation
9
about anything at all.
10
Q.
Well, but just directing your
11
attention for one second back to the first
12
paragraph, they talk about legally, it
13
says, "the firm believes it's a breach of
14
our sublease."
15
correctly?
16
A.
So that is stated
That is stated in the letter
17
back in September of '09, and this is
18
almost July of 2011.
19 20
MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 10.
21
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No.
22
10 was marked for
23
identification.)
24
page 65
1 2
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Take a look at Plaintiff's
3
Exhibit 10 dated September 18, 2009.
4
you receive a copy of this memo from
Did
5 6
Mr. Clinton, Sr.? A.
Well, it's addressed to me, but
7
I don't know if I received it.
8
recall.
9
Q.
I can't
So I guess if you don't recall
10
receiving it, you wouldn't know whether or
11
not you responded to it, is that correct?
12
Just no recollection?
13 14 15
A.
I just have absolutely no
recollection of that at all. Q.
Okay.
I am sorry.
Did any other sub-tenant
16
object to you, either orally or in writing,
17
to the August 25, 2009, memo --
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
-- Plaintiff's Exhibit 8?
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
Have you had any conversations
22
with any sub-tenants in Suite 3400 stating
23
your position that you think their sublease
24
has a mutual mistake?
page 66
1 2
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: to the form of the question.
3
THE WITNESS:
4
never been raised.
5
BY MR. WALDON:
6
Object
Q.
The issue has
Since this current lawsuit was
7
filed, have you or anyone at KRC
8
communicated with any other sub-tenants
9
with regard to their subleases or any of
10
the thereof?
11
A.
12
but myself.
13
Q.
I can't speak for anybody else I have not. At some point, KRC restricted
14
the use of the den, the large conference
15
room, isn't that correct?
16
A.
That usage has always been
17
restricted.
18
Q.
In what way?
19
A.
People would have to
20
in a book to be able to set out the time
21
that they were going to use it so there
22
wouldn't be chaos among all the sub-tenants
23
with regard to the use of the rooms.
24
MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
page 67
1
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 11.
2
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No.
3
11 was marked for
4
identification.)
5 6 7 8
THE WITNESS:
I read it.
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Is this a memo you sent on or
about April 5, 2011?
9
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Did you make the decision that
11
is reflected in this memo with regard to
12
the den?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Please describe -- well, take
15
that back.
Withdrawn.
Did you see or find
16
the serious scratch and 10-inch gouge on
17
the table that's referred to here?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Who is the first person who saw
20
it, if you know?
21 22
A.
first person who saw it, but I saw it.
23 24
I have no idea who was the
Q.
And do you recall when that
was, approximately?
page 68
1 2
A.
Shortly before this memo was
sent.
3
Q.
Do you have any facts with
4
regard to how this scratch and gouge may
5
have happened?
6
A.
The memo itself refers to the
7
anonymity of whoever did it.
8
know.
9 10
Q.
We don't
Did you talk to Donna Carlson
about the scratch and the gouge?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
And what were the contents of
13
that discussion?
14
A.
I was not a happy camper.
15
Q.
What, if anything, did she have
16
to say?
17
A.
She understood it and came up
18
with a suggestion that, in addition to the
19
registration of the time that you wanted in
20
the books that we had available for usage
21
of the room, that we take steps to insure
22
that the room was used only at the times
23
that are requested by the sub-tenants and
24
by our firm.
page 69
1
Q.
The den had not been locked
2
permanently prior to this time, is that
3
correct?
4
A.
No it had not.
5
Q.
Do you recall who reported the
6
scratch and the gouge to you?
7
A.
8 9
I think it was either -MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
me.
Excuse
I am going to object to the form of
10
the question.
To him personally, or to
11
Kusper and Raucci?
12
MR. WALDON:
To him personally.
13
THE WITNESS:
I think I heard
14
about it from Donna.
15
could have been Stanley, III.
16
BY MR. WALDON:
17 18
Q.
I am not sure.
It
Do you recall what time of day
it was reported to you?
19
A.
No, I do not.
20
Q.
Do you, Stanley Kusper, Jr.,
21
think someone at the Clinton firm did the
22
damage to the table?
23 24
A.
I have absolutely no way of
knowing.
page 70
1
Q.
Are there any documents, notes,
2
memos or other documents relating to the
3
incident that resulted in Plaintiff's
4
Exhibit 11?
5
A.
6
about them.
7 8 9
If there are, I don't know
MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 12. (Plaintiff's Exhibit No.
10
12 was marked for
11
identification.)
12 13
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Take a look at Plaintiff's
14
Exhibit 12, and tell me if you received
15
this letter on or about the date it bears.
16
A.
Yes, I did.
17
Q.
Was that from a lawyer named
18
Dennis Waldon?
19
A.
I think so, Dennis C. Waldon.
20
Q.
And did you respond to
21
Mr. Waldon?
22
A.
I believe we had a telephone
23
conversation when you called me, and you
24
said to me that I hadn't responded; and I
page 71
1
said, "Well, we will, in due course.
2
think it deserves a response."
3 4
Q.
I
And do you recall when that
occurred?
5
A.
No.
6
Q.
Is that the only time you
7
recall you and I speaking about this
8
letter?
9
A.
10
I believe that's correct. MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
11
forget you already marked 13.
12
BY MR. WALDON:
13
Q.
Don't
With regard, generally, to your
14
interaction with other sub-tenants in Suite
15
3400 over the last couple of years, do you
16
consider yourself to be aloof from them?
17
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
18
to the form of the question.
19
argumentative.
20
answer.
21
Object
It's also
If you understand, you can
THE WITNESS:
How can I answer
22
that question when everybody is different
23
and interactions between people are
24
different based upon the differences
page 72
1
between the people and the attitudes of
2
those people?
I do not consider myself to
3
be aloof.
4
myself to be quite friendly.
5
BY MR. WALDON:
6
Q.
On the contrary.
I consider
On matters relating to
7
interaction and communications with the
8
sub-tenants on issues that might arise, do
9
you prefer that Donna Carlson deals with
10 11
them rather than yourself? A.
That's why she is there.
12
is the office manager.
13
active practice of law.
14
Q.
She
I, too, have an
In the Defendant's Responses to
15
Plaintiff's Rule 213(f) Interrogatories,
16
Steven Adatto, A-d-a-t-t-o -- is that how
17
you pronounce his name?
18
A.
That's correct.
19
Q.
-- is identified as a witness
20
who may testify about matters in the
21
Complaint in K & R's Affirmative Defenses
22
and Counterclaim.
23
information he has knowledge about with
24
regard to those issues?
Do you know what
page 73
1
A.
He oftentimes advises Donna
2
with regard to leasehold matters and
3
issues.
4
them involve the Clinton -- I will call it
5
a controversy.
6
the subject of -- I will try to be polite
7
about this -- a complaint filed with the
8
Attorney Registration and Disciplinary
9
Commission by Mr. Clinton, Jr. with regard
I don't know whether or not any of
But I do know that he was
10
to alleged, and I stress the word
11
"alleged," conduct in a matter before the
12
Department of Employment Security of
13
Illinois.
14 15
Q. practice?
What is Mr. Adatto's area of Does it include real estate?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Anything else?
18
A.
He practices in all phases of
19
our practice.
20
does work before the Department of
21
Employment Security.
22
injury work.
He does employment work.
He
He does personal
He does insurance work.
He
23
does whatever.
Again, he is one of our
24
general functionaries.
page 74
1
Q.
But some real estate?
2
A.
Yes.
3
Q.
It includes real estate?
4
A.
Yes, he has handled real estate
5
transactions on behalf of the office and
6
his clients.
7
Q.
Let's go back, please, for a
8
second to Plaintiff's Exhibit 4, the
9
Answer.
10
page 28.
11
there is "unclean hands."
12
at the allegations in paragraph 69.
13
a few questions about 69.
And if you would turn, please, to The fifth affirmative defense And take a look I have
14
A.
Okay.
I have read it.
15
Q.
Are you aware of any facts with
16
regard to the allegation that the Clinton
17
firm engaged in unfair, inequitable,
18
unconscionable and/or fraudulent actions in
19
connection with the sublease?
20
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
21
to the form of the question.
This is an
22
allegation in a pleading that has legal
23
concepts in it that are set forth in order
24
to establish the defense.
The witness may
page 75
1
not know exactly how to characterize
2
certain facts to fit within or without any
3
of those particular allegations and legal
4
concepts.
5
after the facts are into evidence and for
6
decision by the judge.
7
that you are asking him, also, for a legal
8
conclusion is improper.
9
the question, you can answer.
10
That is for argument of counsel
THE WITNESS:
So to the extent
If you understand
Well, I think it's
11
unfair and unconscionable for people to
12
come to you and lease two offices and a
13
work station and, with an obvious mistake
14
in the lease, not seize upon it for all of
15
the time that they were there, some two
16
years plus, and attempt to assert that they
17
have sublet the entire office, including
18
all of the sub-tenants, including all of
19
the Kusper and Raucci space.
20
that's unfair.
21
unconscionable, as a matter of fact.
22
I think
I think it's
It's inequitable to assert
23
these things after about, what, a
24
year-and-a-half delay, after asserting
page 76
1
their first alleged breach.
2
believe that there are, from what I have
3
been told, statements --
4
And I do
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Excuse
5
me.
6
about to testify to something that may have
7
come from a conversation between you and I.
8
If so, that's privileged.
9
I need to make sure that you are not
10 11
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
I can't do
that. MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Thank
12
you.
I object and instruct him not to
13
answer on privilege grounds.
14
THE WITNESS:
15
can't.
16
BY MR. WALDON:
17
Q.
I'd like to, but I
Turn to the next page, please,
18
if you would, in Plaintiff's Exhibit 4.
19
The seventh affirmative defense alleges an
20
illegality.
21
for a moment to paragraph 77.
22
question there.
And I direct your attention I have a
23
A.
Go ahead.
24
Q.
Do you know of any facts, which
page 77
1
is what I am asking you about, that would
2
indicate that plaintiff's firms are barred
3
by the principles of illegality?
4
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Again, I
5
am going to interpose my objection to the
6
form of the question, as well as asking
7
this witness to testify to legal
8
conclusions.
Although you ask him for
9
facts, you are asking for him to fit those
10
facts and categorize them within the
11
construct of an affirmative defense of
12
legal concepts.
13
witness to testify to or to make those
14
judgments, but rather it is for the judge
15
and only the judge after the facts to which
16
this witness may have personal knowledge
17
are into evidence.
18
That is not for this
Subject to those objections, if
19
you understand, and I stress that if you
20
understand, you may answer.
21
MR. WALDON:
Object to the
22
improper coaching, but go ahead if you can.
23
We are talking about facts.
24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Same
page 78
1
objection.
2
THE WITNESS:
I don't know what
3
facts the pleader of this affirmative
4
defense relied upon in making that defense;
5
and, accordingly, I can't answer the
6
question.
7
BY MR. WALDON:
8
Q.
9
for a moment.
10
A.
11 12
Let's go back to paragraph 13
You don't mean paragraph 13.
You mean Exhibit 13. Q.
Exhibit 13, right.
Okay.
If
13
you look past the transmittal letter, we
14
talked about 1202.
15
marked in the lower right-hand corner
16
through 1207, which is at the top, do you
17
know what these documents relate to?
18
A.
The documents 1203
This is -- the first one on 03
19
is an invoice from Simone D'Amore, who was
20
the woodworker who refinished the table
21
that was scratched and gouged.
22
Q.
The table in the den?
23
A.
In the den, yes, sir.
24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Just if
page 79
1
I can for the record, each of the memos or
2
invoices are dated the same in the text
3
area, but if you look at the fax legends,
4
you will see the differences in when they
5
were actually transmitted and when they
6
came in.
7
BY MR. WALDON:
8 9
Q.
And the one that starts at
1206, that's another invoice to that
10
gentleman for additional work on the table,
11
I presume?
12 13
A.
No.
reflects the entire total of $2,200.
14 15
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
18
They are
in reverse.
16 17
That is an invoice that
MR. WALDON:
They are both dated
February 28. MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
And they
19
are in reverse order.
20
fax legends on the top or bottom of the
21
document, you will see when they were
22
actually sent in and what the differences
23
are in the timing of them.
24
MR. WALDON:
If you look at the
Yes, I see.
All
page 80
1
right.
2
same.
3
Even though they are dated the
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
4
That was the biller's mistake.
5
BY MR. WALDON:
6
Q.
Exactly.
I am going to ask a question
7
without marking as an exhibit because it's
8
hundreds of pages long.
9
represent to you that these are some of the
But I will
10
documents that we received today,
11
indicating they are calendars.
12
know, just to identify generally, are these
13
calendars that KRC uses for reserving and
14
using the conference rooms in the suite?
15 16 17 18 19 20
And if you
A.
That's what they appear to be,
Q.
You don't maintain these
yes.
documents, is that correct? A.
No, I do not.
That's why I
have an office manager and a receptionist.
21
Q.
And one other question.
Do you
22
know -- which you may or may not know.
For
23
example, here's a page for January 5th.
It
24
refers to the den, small conference room,
page 81
1
and what's the third column, do you know,
2
library?
3
A.
That looks like library.
4
Q.
Library, okay.
And on this
5
page under January 5th under the den, there
6
is, like, a file stamp for December 29th.
7
Do you see that?
8
A.
I see that.
9
Q.
Do you know what that means?
10
A.
Absolutely not.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
Would Donna Carlson
know?
13
A.
You would have to ask her, sir.
14
Q.
Why don't we take a short
15
break?
That may be it.
I am sorry.
With
16
regard to the calendar, you may or may not
17
know this.
Are there back-up documents?
18
For example, if someone e-mails or sends a
19
memo to reserve a conference room and after
20
it's put down in the book, is that back-up
21
documentation kept, if you know?
22
A.
I have no idea.
That would
23
probably be out of the ordinary because
24
everybody's in the suite, generally
page 82
1 2
speaking. MR. WALDON:
Okay, short break.
3
(After a short break, the
4
deposition resumed as
5
follows:)
6
MR. WALDON:
7
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
8 9 10 11 12 13
reserve signature.
No more questions. We will
I have no questions.
(Whereupon the deposition concluded.)
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
page 83
1
STATE OF ILLINOIS
2
COUNTY OF COOK
) ) SS )
3 4
I,______________________________________,
5
do hereby certify that I have read the
6
foregoing transcript of my deposition
7
consisting of pages ____ through ___,
8
inclusive; and I find it is a true and
9
correct transcript of my deposition so
10
given as aforesaid.
11 12 13
________________________________________
14 15 16
Subscribed and sworn to
17
before me this ____ day
18
of _____________, 2011.
19 20
___________________________
21
Notary Public
22 23 24
page 84
1
STATE OF ILLINOIS
2
COUNTY OF C O O K
) ) )
SS:
3 4 5 6
I, Cathleen M. Baker, CSR, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and a notary
7
public in and for the County of Cook and
8
State of Illinois, do hereby certify that
9
STANLEY T. KUSPER, JR., on June 30, 2011,
10
was by me first duly sworn to testify to
11
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
12
the truth, and that the above deposition
13
was recorded stenographically by me and
14
transcribed by me.
15
I FURTHER CERTIFY that the
16
foregoing transcript of said deposition is
17
a true, correct, and complete transcript of
18
the testimony given by the said witness at
19
the time and place specified.
20
I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not
21
a relative or employee or attorney or
22
employee of such attorney or counsel, or
23
financially interested directly or
24
indirectly in this action.
page 85
1 2 3
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have set my hand.
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
________________________________ Cathleen M. Baker Certified Shorthand Reporter Certificate No. 84-002130
1 2 3
STATE OF ILLINOIS COUNTY OF C O O K
) ) )
SS.
4 5
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY, ILLINOIS COUNTY DEPARTMENT, CHANCERY DIVISION
6 7 8
EDWARD X. CLINTON, P.C., Plaintiff/ Counterdefendant,
9 vs. 10 11 12
KUSPER AND RAUCCI CHARTERED, Defendant/ Counterplaintiff.
) ) ) ) ) Case No. ) 11 CH 19310 ) ) ) ) )
13 14
The discovery deposition of
15
STANLEY T. KUSPER, JR., taken before
16
Cathleen M. Baker, CSR, a notary public
17
within and for the County of Cook and State
18
of Illinois, on June 30, 2011, at the hour
19
of 1:00 o'clock p.m., at 444 North Michigan
20
Avenue, Suite 2600, Chicago, Illinois.
21
22 23 24
page 2
1
APPEARANCES:
2 3 4 5
MR. DENNIS C. WALDON LAVIN & WALDON 444 North Michigan Avenue, Suite 2600 Chicago, Illinois 60611 (312) 670-4260 (312) 670-4275 facsimile [email protected]
6 7
appeared on behalf of plaintiff/counterdefendant;
8 9 10 11
MR. EDWARD X. CLINTON, JR. LAW OFFICES OF EDWARD X. CLINTON, P.C. 30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 3400 Chicago, Illinois 60602 (312) 357-1515 (312) 201-0737 [email protected]
12 13
Appeared on behalf of the plaintiff/counterdefendant;
14 15 16 17
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER KUSPER & RAUCCI CHARTERED 30 North LaSalle Street, Suite 3400 Chicago, Illinois 60602 (312) 332-5000 (312) 332-4663 facsimile,
18
[email protected]
19
appeared on behalf of defendant/counterplaintiff.
20 21 22 23 24
page 3
1 2 3
I N D E X WITNESS: Stanley T. Kusper, Jr. Examination by Mr. Waldon
PAGE 4
4 5 PLAINTIFF'S EXHIBITS 6 No. 1
18
GroupNo. 2
24
No. 3
29
No. 4
35
No. 5
41
No. 6
43
No. 7
45
No. 8
49
7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14
No. 9
60
No. 10
64
No. 11
67
No. 12
70
No. 13
21
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
page 4
1
(Witness sworn.)
2
STANLEY T. KUSPER, JR.,
3
called as a witness, having been first duly
4
sworn, was examined and testified as
5
follows:
6
EXAMINATION
7
BY MR. WALDON
8 9 10
Q.
Would you state your name and
address for the record, please? A.
Stanley T, middle initial,
11
Kusper, K-u-s-p-e-r, Jr.
12
is 1040 North Lake Shore Drive, Apartment
13
23A, Chicago, Illinois, 60611.
14
Q.
My home address
Let the record reflect that
15
this deposition is taken pursuant to notice
16
and all applicable rules.
17 18
Mr. Kusper, have you been deposed before?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
How many times?
21
A.
I have no recollection of that.
22
A few.
23 24
Q. work.
So you know how depositions Did you discuss your testimony today
page 5
1
with anyone other than your counsel?
2
A.
No.
3
Q.
Did you review any documents in
4
anticipation of your deposition today?
5
A.
Yes.
6
Q.
What did you review?
7
A.
Pleadings, exhibits.
8
Q.
Exhibits to the pleadings?
9
A.
Exhibits to the pleadings and
10
other exhibits that were introduced at
11
other deps.
12
Q.
Okay.
13
A.
I can't recall.
15
Q.
For the record, what is your
16
occupation?
17
A.
I am an attorney.
18
Q.
Would you summarize your
14
19
Anything else? I don't think
so.
education, please?
20
A.
How far back do you want me to
22
Q.
Oh, high school.
23
A.
Weber High School, Archbishop
21
24
go?
Weber High School, Chicago; University of
page 6
1
Illinois undergraduate, Bachelor of Arts
2
1957; Northwestern University School of
3
Law, Juris Doctor 1960.
4
Q.
Are you licensed in Illinois?
5
A.
Yes.
6
Q.
Any other states?
7
A.
No other states, no.
8
Q.
What has been your area of
9 10
practice? A.
Oh, it's been varied over the
11
course of the 51 years.
I do principally
12
now labor law, governmental law, education
13
law, EEOC work, Illinois human rights work,
14
collective bargaining agreements,
15
personnel.
16
Q.
Have you ever done any real
17
estate work?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Would you summarize for the
20
record your political experience and
21
positions?
22
A.
On November 1, 1961, I became
23
the assistant attorney at the Board of
24
Election Commissioners at the City of
page 7
1
Chicago.
2
around April or May, I became the acting
3
attorney for the Board of Election
4
Commissioners of the City of Chicago.
5
1964, I became full counsel there.
6
1969, I filled a vacancy and became a
7
member of the Board of Election
8
Commissioners and chairman.
9
until March of 1973, when I was appointed
10
by the County Board to fill a vacancy in
11
the Office of County Clerk of Cook County;
12
and I successfully held that office until
13
1990.
14 15 16
Q.
In 1963, I believe somewhere
And during that time, were you
a member or d with any law firm? A.
I had a brief tenure with the
law firm of McCoy, Ming and Black.
18
lasted for less than a year.
19
practiced law then on my own.
20
Q.
Starting in 1990?
21
A.
No, no, no.
23
In
That lasted
17
22
In
And I
During the tenure
of my public life, did you ask? Q.
Yes.
That
24
A.
I had an affiliation with
page 8
1
McCoy, Ming and Black for less than a year;
2
and then after that, it was just my sole
3
practice.
4 5
Q.
Have you as an individual been
a party to any lawsuit?
6
A.
Yes.
7
Q.
When was that?
8
A.
Back in the late '50s,
9 10
something like '59, '60, I was involved in a personal injury case.
I was a plaintiff.
11
Q.
Anything else as an individual?
12
A.
Well, when you are in public
13
life, you get sued in your official
14
capacity and your individual capacity.
15
was involved in about 25,000 cases with me
16
as an individual.
17 18 19
Q.
Other than in your official
capacity? A.
I don't believe so.
I
20
Q.
As an attorney have you ever
21
been the subject of any disciplinary
22
proceeding?
23
A.
24
am sorry.
No.
Well, let me correct.
I
During one campaign, one of my
page 9
1
opponents brought a charge against me
2
before the ARDC, which was dismissed.
3
Q.
What is your current firm?
4
A.
Kusper and Raucci Chartered,
5
R-a-u-c-c-i, Chartered.
6
Q.
So Raucci?
7
A.
Raucci.
8
Q.
I have heard it a number of
9
ways.
10
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
11
Mr. Clinton, Sr. was pronouncing it
12
incorrectly, but I left it alone.
13
BY MR. WALDON:
Yes.
14
Q.
When did that firm start?
15
A.
In the '70s.
16
Q.
And briefly over the years,
17
what has been the size?
18
Has it been small?
19
been, just in summary?
20
A.
Has it fluctuated?
What's the largest it's
Depends on your definition of
21
"small."
We have been somewhere -- well,
22
when Andy Raucci and I started it, it was
23
the two of us.
24
I believe, ten; and we are now seven.
It got up to at one point,
page 10
1
Q.
And at times, to shorten
2
things, if I say KRC, can we use that as
3
Kusper and Raucci Chartered?
4
A.
Fine.
5
Q.
Are there officers and/or
6
directors of KRC?
7
A.
Yes.
8
Q.
And who are they?
9
A.
I am all of it.
10
Q.
Are you the decision maker on
11 12
all issues at KRC? A.
Well, I was, with my partner
13
Andy Raucci.
14
time.
15
But now with the advent of his retirement
16
some nine years ago, I guess, in the advent
17
of Stewart ing the firm, I still have a
18
two-share majority of the stock, but we
19
tly make decisions.
20 21
We were equal partners at the
I was president.
Q.
He was secretary.
tly you and Stewart, the
gentleman to your right?
22
A.
That's correct.
23
Q.
Is Stanley Kusper, III, an
24
attorney in your firm?
page 11
1
A.
Yes.
2
Q.
And what is his area of
3 4 5 6
practice? A.
Whatever we ask him to do, Jack
of all trades. Q.
Specifically with regard to
7
potential sub-tenants -- well, withdrawn.
8
KRC is in Suite 3400 at 30 North LaSalle in
9
Chicago, correct?
10
A.
Correct.
11
Q.
With regard to sub-tenants or
12
potential sub-tenants for Suite 3400, who
13
decides on whether to accept them or not?
14
A.
I do.
Or I did.
It would now
15
be, "We would."
16
my son Stewart, has only been a member of
17
the firm since, I believe, September
18
the 15th of 2010.
19
Q.
But I used to.
9-15-10, okay.
Stewart,
With regard to
20
KRC's staff, people working for you who are
21
not attorneys, over the years, what has
22
been the range of people, non-attorneys,
23
working for KRC?
24
A.
Four, five maximum.
page 12
1 2
Q.
And how many at the present
time, non-attorney employees of KRC?
3
A.
Four, I believe.
4
Q.
And is Donna Carlson one of
5
those?
6
A.
Yes.
7
Q.
And is Pamela, whose name
8
starts with a "G," one of those?
9
A.
Graniczny, G-r-a-n-i-c-z-n-y.
10
Q.
And who are the other two, for
11
the record?
12
A.
13
Then there is Pam, whose last
name I always mispronounce.
14
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
15
Prokaski, P-r-o-k-a-s-k-i.
16
BY MR. WALDON:
17 18 19 20
Q.
How long has she been with the
firm? A.
Approximately, a little longer
than Stewart, so mid-2010.
21
Q.
And who is the fourth staff
22
person?
23
A.
Our receptionist Maria.
24
Q.
What's Maria's last name?
page 13
1 2
A. Gonzalez.
Gonzalez?
No, it's not
Can't tell you.
3 4
Q.
How long has she been with the
firm?
5
A.
Very short period of time.
6
Q.
With regard to Pamela G., what
7
are her duties?
8
A.
Assistant, secretarial, right
10
Q.
Right arm to you?
11
A.
Um-hum.
12
Q.
That's a "yes"?
9
arm.
13 14
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
You got
to answer out loud in words.
15
THE WITNESS:
16
That's correct.
17
BY MR. WALDON:
18
Q.
Yes.
I am sorry.
When did Donna Carlson start
19
with KRC, approximately?
20
year.
You can make it a
21
A.
Nine, ten years ago.
22
Q.
And what is her job description
23
and duties?
24
A.
Office manager.
page 14
1 2
Q.
How long has she held that
position?
3
A.
Ever since we hired her.
4
Q.
In the time that she has been
5
the office manager of KRC, have you ever
6
heard any complaints about her from any of
7
your sub-tenants?
8
A.
Yes.
9
Q.
And can you generalize or can
10
you recall specifics about those
11
complaints?
12
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
13
to the form of the question.
14
overbroad and vague.
15
understand it.
16
Object
It's very
You can answer if you
THE WITNESS:
Generally,
17
tenants, sub-tenants complain when she
18
enforces the rules or asks for overdue rent
19
or any other matters that she deems
20
appropriate to bring to my attention -- to
21
our attention now.
22 23 24
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Have you ever received any
complaints about Donna from other KRC staff
page 15
1
people?
2
A.
I can't recall any.
3
Q.
Have you ever received any
4
complaints about Donna from any other KRC
5
attorneys?
6
A.
I can't recall any.
7
Q.
With regard to Pamela G., if I
8
could call her that, to your knowledge,
9
what does she know about the facts or
10
issues relating to this?
11
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
12
to the form of the question.
13
and overbroad.
14
answer.
15
Object
It's vague
If you understand, you can
THE WITNESS:
She has knowledge
16
of some of the matters that came up which
17
resulted in some of the actions that we
18
took, yes.
19 20
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Can you recall any,
21
specifically, that she has knowledge of or
22
had involvement with?
23 24
A.
The urination on the floors of
the bathrooms.
page 16
1
Q.
Anything else?
2
A.
At this time, I can't think of
3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
anything else. Q.
How long has KRC been in Suite
3400 at 30 North LaSalle? A.
Forever.
About 34 -- 33,
34 years. Q.
And how many attorney offices
are there, ballpark, or exactly if you know, in Suite 3400?
11
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
12
to the form of the question.
13
Are you talking about now?
14
about ever?
Object
It's vague. Are you talking
15
MR. WALDON:
Now.
16
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
You mean
17
now currently being used by K & R
18
attorneys?
19
about the fluctuation in attorney numbers,
20
so I am just trying to be precise.
21
BY MR. WALDON:
22 23
Q.
You asked a prior question
At the current time, how many
attorney offices are there in Suite 3400?
24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Still
page 17
1
object to the form of the question.
2
still vague the way you have worded it.
3
you understand, you can answer.
4
THE WITNESS:
5
thereabouts.
6
BY MR. WALDON:
7 8
Q.
It's If
Could be 17.
I believe 18, Could be 19.
Did KRC's -- who is the
landlord of KRC, Tishman Spire?
9
A.
Tishman Spire.
10
Q.
And did KRC sign a master lease
11
with Tishman Spire at some point?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
When KRC moved in 34, 33,
14
34 years ago, with whom did it sign a
15
lease?
16
A.
I believe that it was
17
Prudential Insurance Company at the time.
18
They had taken the building over from the
19
original developers.
20 21 22
Q.
And when did Tishman Spire take
over? A.
When Sam Zell sold his
23
holdings, I believe.
This is what, three,
24
four years ago maybe, give or take?
Let me
page 18
1
correct that.
2
sold and then sold to Tishman Spire, so
3
Tishman Spire's been around for a couple,
4
three years maximum.
5 6 7
Q.
Somebody came in after Zell
Has the initial lease that KRC
signed been amended at any time? A.
Yes.
8
Q.
How many times?
9
A.
Approximately three, maybe four
10
times.
11
Q.
And do you refer to that as a
12
master lease?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
And is it your understanding
15
that in the discovery process in this case,
16
the production of that master lease and
17
amendments has been requested and that the
18
defendant has objected to producing it?
19
A.
20 21
Yes, I am aware of that. MR. WALDON:
Would you mark
this as Plaintiff's Exhibit 1, please?
22
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 1
23
was marked for
24
identification.)
page 19
1 2
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at what has
3
been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 1, and tell
4
me if you recognize that as Defendant's
5
Response to Plaintiff's Request for
6
Production of Documents?
7
A.
That's the title it bears.
8
Q.
If you would turn, please, to
9
-- there is no page number, so one, two,
10
three, fourth page, the request and the
11
response to Number 5.
12
of the page.
13
master lease and any amendments thereto and
14
then the answer?
It's at the bottom
See request Number 5 for the
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
Do you see that the one
17
objection is that the request is overbroad?
18
Do you see that?
19
A.
Yes.
20
Q.
How many pages is the master
21 22
lease and the amendments? A.
I haven't looked at that master
23
lease in a long time.
The only thing I
24
have been looking at is the amendments to
page 20
1
it.
2
three, four or five pages.
3
could not even conjecture with any
4
reasonable accuracy as to how long it is.
5
And the amendments run sometimes
Q.
Overall, I
And do you have any
6
understanding as to why it would be unduly
7
burdensome to have someone copy and have
8
that master lease and amendments produced?
9
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
10
going to object to the form of the
11
question.
12
opinions of someone who is here as a fact
13
witness.
14
want to take up a discovery issue with me,
15
you can do it in court with the Illinois
16
Supreme Court rules and 201(k), in
17
particular.
18
witness and ask him about the legal bases
19
and factual bases for objections I have
20
made.
21
instructing him not to answer.
22 23
I am
It is totally improper to ask
I am attorney of record.
If you
You don't get to harass a
If you want to persist in this, I am
He is not here as an attorney. He is here as a fact witness only.
24
MR. WALDON:
A fact witness can
page 21
1
testify as to how lengthy or not the
2
document is that's at issue.
3
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
And he
4
gave you that.
5
opine on the bases of the objections that
6
have been leveled.
7
a Rule 201(k), not in a fact witness
8
deposition.
9
you if you ever request it, but you have
10
15 16 17
I am happy to have that with
MR. WALDON:
Do you stand by
your attorney's comments?
13 14
That's proper only for
not.
11 12
You are now asking him to
THE WITNESS:
I do.
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
At the current time, how many
sub-tenants are in Suite 3400? A.
Approximately 14.
18
MR. WALDON:
Let's mark this,
19
if you would, please, as Plaintiff's
20
Exhibit 13.
21
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 13
22
was marked for
23
identification.)
24
page 22
1 2
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
I have some premarked exhibits.
3
Let me show you what's been marked
4
Plaintiff's Exhibit 13, a letter from your
5
counsel from a little bit ago today sending
6
over some supplemental production of
7
documents.
8
turn to the last page, please, which is
9
marked at the lower right "1208."
10 11
I would ask you if you would
And do
you know what this document indicates? MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
For the
12
record, before he answers, my
13
secretary/assistant did not mark,
14
obviously, what's been redacted here, which
15
is the rental pertaining to the other
16
ten apartments, sub-tenants on here, so it
17
should have been so marked.
18
MR. WALDON:
19
I presumed
that that's what that was.
20
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
21
sorry.
22
what it was.
I am
You can answer the question if you
23 24
I apologize.
THE WITNESS:
He wanted to know
how many subtenants there are.
page 23
1 2
MR. WALDON:
Why don't you just
read back the question, please?
3
(Question read back by the
4
reporter, as requested.)
5
THE WITNESS:
6
"Leases 2008/2013."
7
indicates 21 sub-tenants.
8
BY MR. WALDON:
9 10
Q.
Well, it's titled,
And I think it
It says "leases," but these are
subleases?
11
A.
That's correct.
12
Q.
And are they in, roughly,
13
chronological order?
14
A.
I have no idea.
15
Q.
Toward the bottom on the left,
16
I see "490-591."
Do you know if there is
17
another one beyond that?
18
off.
It's sort of cut
Or do you know, counsel?
19
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
20
You should have called me.
21
checked.
22
BY MR. WALDON:
23 24
I don't.
I would have
But I will check on a break.
Q.
Okay.
Are sub-tenants of Suite
3400 with, I presume, lease beginning
page 24
1
from 2008 and to some extent -- and the
2
later ones running to 2013?
3
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
4
to the form of the question.
It's vague.
5
If you understand and you know, you can
6
answer.
7
THE WITNESS:
I do not know, but
8
I know what the caption says, "leases
9
2008/2001."
I don't have individual
10
knowledge about individual leases.
11
MR. WALDON:
12
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Group Exhibit 2.
13
(Plaintiff's Group Exhibit
14
No. 2 was marked for
15
identification.)
16 17
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at Group
18
Exhibit 2, which bears the defendant's
19
document production number 169 through 200
20
and appears to be four subleases with
21
regard to Suite 3400 with Kevin Mix, Robert
22
Karr, John Martin and David Stringer.
23
Please take a quick look.
24
look to be those subleases?
And do these
page 25
1
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
I am
2
going to caution the witness, you don't
3
have to take a quick look.
4
long a look as you need to to familiarize
5
yourself with the documents.
6
in your testimony.
You can take as
Be confident
7 8
THE WITNESS: with Kevin Mix.
9 10
There is a lease
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: Sublease.
11
THE WITNESS:
Sublease, I should
12
say.
13
Stringer, sublease with Robert W. Karr and
14
a sublease with John C. Martin LLC.
15
BY MR. WALDON:
16
There is a sublease with David N.
Q.
Okay.
Just one point.
The
17
second one, which appears with David N.
18
Stringer --
19 20
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
I think
that's page 177.
21
MR. WALDON:
That's right, yes,
22
177.
A quick look, I don't see Stringer's
23
name on Document 1208 on PX 13.
24
be identified under some other name, do you
Would that
page 26
1 2
know? MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Well,
3
look.
For the record, I am going to note,
4
some of these are noted by first names.
5
THE WITNESS:
490-49 at the end
6
of the first column has "David."
7
could be David.
8
BY MR. WALDON:
That
9
Q.
That could be Stringer?
10
A.
It could be Stringer.
The one
11
above it, for instance 490-47, that's Gail.
12
That's Weiss.
13
first and last names here.
14
Q.
So there are mixtures of
With regard to -- and your
15
Document Production Request says that
16
"Sample subleases have been produced."
17
With regard to Document 1208 in Plaintiff's
18
Exhibit 13, do you know if all of those
19
subleases were in the same form as the four
20
subleases that constitute Group Exhibit 2?
21
A.
I do not know.
22
Q.
With regard to the sublease
23
forms that are in Plaintiff's Group
24
Exhibit 2, who drafted that sublease?
page 27
1 2
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: sorry.
I am
Which one?
3
THE WITNESS:
These four.
I
4
think the form was put together by Stanley
5
Kusper, III.
6
BY MR. WALDON:
7 8 9 10 11
Q.
And I am not sure I asked.
How
long has he been with KRC? A.
I'd have to conjecture.
It's
about 9, 10 years. Q.
Now, you have got Group
12
Exhibit 2?
Just look at the first page.
13
The paragraph 2 refers to "KRC's master
14
lease," correct?
15
A.
Yes.
16
Q.
And KRC is, in fact, the tenant
17
for Suite 3400 on the master lease?
18
A.
That's correct.
19
Q.
And Suite 3400 is described as
20
"the Premises," capital "P" in quote, is
21
that correct, at the end of paragraph 2?
22
A.
Yes.
23 24
Q.
And in paragraph 3 of the first
page of this sublease, paragraph 3 states
page 28
1
that what's being subleased are "the
2
Premises," capital "P," is that correct?
3
A.
Yes.
4
Q.
So if the premises are the
5
subject of the master lease and it's
6
mentioned in the same term as the paragraph
7
3, how is it that the master lease is not
8
relevant to the issues in this case?
9
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
10
to the form of the question.
I am going to
11
go back to the same thing that we talked
12
about before.
13
the objections that were made to your
14
document request, you need to take it up
15
pursuant to the Illinois Supreme Court
16
rules, which is not doing it in the context
17
of questioning a witness who is here as a
18
fact witness, but rather talking to me as
If you would like to discuss
19
counsel of record.
20
If you want to persist in this,
21
I will make the objection.
I will instruct
22
him not to answer.
23
myself available for the same 201(k) that I
24
invited you to have earlier when you did
And I am happy to make
page 29
1
the same thing with this witness.
2
BY MR. WALDON:
3
Q.
Prior to this case for which
4
you are here today, has KRC been in any
5
litigation involving this form of the
6
sublease?
7
A.
8 9
No. MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 3.
10
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 3
11
was marked for
12
identification.)
13 14 15
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Take a look at Plaintiff's
Exhibit 3, please.
The first question is,
16
this is the sublease with Edward X.
17
Clinton, P.C., is that correct?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
And this is the same form as
20
the four samples that were in Group
21
Exhibit 2, is that correct?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
Do you think it was reasonable
24
for the Clinton firm to rely upon the
page 30
1 2
of the lease that you drafted? A.
3
I can't answer that. MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
4
to the form of the question.
5
BY MR. WALDON:
6
Q.
I object
In connection with Plaintiff's
7
Exhibit 3, the Clinton firm's sublease,
8
what was your involvement, if any, in
9
negotiation and/or g or discussion of
10 11
this sublease? MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
12
to the form the of the question.
13
vague and ambiguous.
14
you can answer.
15
If you understand,
THE WITNESS:
16
g portion of it.
17
BY MR. WALDON:
18
Q.
It's
I understand the I signed it.
Were you involved at all in any
19
discussions about the sublease prior to
20
your g it?
21
A.
With whom?
22
Q.
Okay.
Did you have any
23
discussions with Mr. Clinton, Jr. or
24
Mr. Clinton, Sr. before you signed the
page 31
1
sublease?
2
A.
No.
3
Q.
Did you have any discussions
4
with Mary Winch of the Clinton firm before
5
g the sublease?
6
A.
No.
7
Q.
It's dated February 20, 2009.
8
And please turn to page 6.
Is that your
9
signature as the president of KRC?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
And you believe you signed it
12
on or about February 20, 2009?
13
A.
That's the date it bears.
14
Q.
Do you recall what time of day
15
you may have signed it?
16
A.
No, sir.
17
Q.
Prior to your g this
18
lease, did you have any discussion about
19
the sublease with Stanley Kusper, III?
20
A.
I don't believe so.
21
Q.
And Stewart Kusper was not
22
there in 2009, correct?
23
A.
That's correct.
24
Q.
Prior to your g this
page 32
1
sublease, Plaintiff's Exhibit 3, did you
2
have any discussion about it with Donna
3
Carlson?
4
A.
Yes.
5 6 7
Q.
And when and what was
discussed? A.
When?
It was prior to the
8
execution of the lease.
It was during the
9
time that she was having discussions, I
10
believe, with Mary Winch, who was
11
negotiating on behalf of the Clintons.
12
being involved to the extent that
13
the Clintons were seeking two offices,
14
larger, as large as they could be.
15
were looking for larger space, and we only
16
had one that was available.
17
I
They
And I undertook discussions
18
with one of our other sub-tenants who was
19
having some difficulty with the practice
20
and finances and persuaded that person to
21
vacate her office and move to another
22
office in the suite, which was smaller and
23
less expensive in rent, so that we could
24
have the availability of a second office;
page 33
1
and that is the office which Mr. Clinton,
2 3
Sr. now occupies. Q.
And with regard to any
4
discussions with Donna Carlson, anything
5
else, , rent, anything about the
6
sublease that you recall?
7 8 9
A.
She just indicated to me what
the were that they had agreed to. Q.
Do you recall anything else
10
about any other discussions with Donna
11
Carlson about this sublease prior to it
12
being signed?
13
A.
I can't recall at this time.
14
Q.
For example, one detail?
Did
15
she tell you anything that anyone from the
16
Clinton firm said to her about what they
17
were looking for, other than the two
18
offices that you have testified to?
19 20 21
A.
I don't recall.
I really
don't. Q.
Besides Donna Carlson, did you
22
have any discussions with anyone else,
23
staff or attorneys, at KRC about this
24
sublease, other than what you have just
page 34
1
testified to?
2
A.
I don't recall.
3
Q.
Has the Clinton firm made all
4
of its rent payments under the sublease,
5
Plaintiff's Exhibit 3?
6
A.
I believe they have.
7
Q.
Are you aware of anything that
8
the Clinton firm has not done pursuant to
9
the of the sublease Plaintiff's
10
Exhibit 3?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
What is that?
13
A.
They haven't furnished us with
14
Workers Compensation insurance coverage.
15
That was provided for in the lease.
16
don't believe they have given us the
17
certificate.
18
Q.
19
paragraph 12?
20
referring to?
And that's pursuant to Is that what you are
I
21
A.
Yes, sir, that is correct.
22
Q.
12(2)?
23
A.
That is correct.
24
And I am not
sure whether or not they are current on
page 35
1
their liability coverage.
2
Q.
So your testimony is that the
3
certificate of insurance hasn't been
4
supplied, and you don't know whether or not
5
the insurance is actually in place, or do
6
you?
7
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
I object
8
to the form of the question.
9
mischaracterizing what he just testified
10 11 12
You are
to. MR. WALDON:
Well, I am trying
to clarify it.
13
THE WITNESS:
I do know that
14
they have not furnished us with the
15
certificate of insurance for Workers
16
Compensation.
17
they are current on their liability
I do not know whether or not
18
insurance certification.
19 20
MR. WALDON:
Would you mark
this, please, as Plaintiff's Exhibit 4?
21
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 4
22
was marked for
23
identification.)
24
page 36
1 2
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at what has
3
been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 4, the
4
Defendant's Answer, Affirmative Defenses
5
and Counterclaim in this case.
6
seen this document before?
Have you
7
A.
Yes.
8
Q.
If you would turn, please, to
9
page 8, and direct your attention to the
10
allegation and answer with regard to
11
paragraph 19, allegation that, "The Clinton
12
firm has performed all material obligations
13
required of it under the lease."
And after
14
the objection at the end, it states, "K &
15
R," which is KRC, "denies the allegations."
16
Do you know the basis for the denial of
17
paragraph 19?
18
A.
Well, I just indicated to you
19
that there is a question concerning the
20
insurance coverage, and I imagine that
21
might be the answer.
22
this, so I don't know.
23 24
Q.
But I didn't certify
To your knowledge, do you know
of anything else besides the insurance
page 37
1 2 3 4 5
issue you just mentioned? A.
At this time, I can't think of
anything. Q.
Going back to -- just keep it
handy -- the sublease, Exhibit 3.
6
A.
Yes.
7
Q.
So to your knowledge, what did
8
KRC intend to sublet to the Clinton firm in
9
Suite 3400?
10
A.
Two offices and one work
11 12
station. Q.
In addition to those spaces,
13
did KRC intend that the Clinton firm would
14
have access to and use of the hallways in
15
the Suite 3400?
16 17 18
A.
The sublease doesn't say that
it does. Q.
Well, I am not asking.
My
19
question is with regard to KRC's intent or
20
understanding.
21
Clinton firm personnel would have access to
22
and use of the hallways in Suite 3400?
23 24
A.
Did you understand that the
They would have permission to
use the hallways in Suite 3400, yes.
page 38
1
Q.
2
closet space?
3
A.
4
do that, too.
5
Q.
6
thing?
And same thing with closets,
They would have permission to
And the reception area, same
7 8
A.
They would have permission to
utilize that service, also.
9
Q.
And the copy room?
10
A.
The answer is same.
11
Q.
Same.
12
A.
They would have permission to
13
And the kitchen?
use the kitchen, yes.
14
Q.
And at the time the lease was
15
filed -- sublease was signed, I am sorry --
16
access to and use of two internal bathrooms
17
in Suite 3400?
18
A.
19
lease.
20
that.
21 22
Q.
They would have permission to use
You say they would have
permission to use that?
23 24
That is not included in the
A.
It is not part of the lease,
but we would grant them permission to do
page 39
1 2 3
so. Q.
And the same with conference
rooms in Suite 3400, have access to and use
4 5
of the conference rooms? A.
They and all the other
6
sub-tenants would have our permission to
7
utilize those, yes, according to the rules
8
and procedure we have for that.
9
Q.
And after the Clinton firm
10
moved into Suite 3400, and certainly for a
11
number of months thereafter, Clinton firm
12
personnel did have access to and use of
13
those common areas that we were just
14
talking about, is that correct?
15 16 17
A.
They had permission to use
them, yes. Q.
With regard to this type of
18
arrangement in Suite 3400 and your other
19
sub-tenants, would you call that a shared
20
office arrangement?
21
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
22
to the form of the question.
It's not a
23
legal term.
24
sublease, and it's not a term in the law.
It's not a term in the
page 40
1
Subject to that, if you understand, you can
2
answer.
3
THE WITNESS:
4
the question.
5
by that.
6
BY MR. WALDON:
7 8
Q.
I don't understand
I don't know what you mean
Have you ever heard the term
"shared office arrangement"?
9
A.
No.
10
Q.
Have you ever heard of other
11
lawyers subleasing space where a number of
12
law firms occupy the same suite and use the
13
same common areas?
14
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
15
to the form of the question.
16
understand, you can answer.
17
THE WITNESS:
18
the question.
19
BY MR. WALDON:
20
Q.
Object
If you
I don't understand
Have you ever been in a law
21
firm where there is more than one firm or
22
more than one counsel occupying the same
23
suite?
24
A.
Except for Kusper and Raucci?
page 41
1
No.
2
Q.
In July of 2009, do you recall
3
correspondence between KRC and the Clinton
4
firm with regard to an issue of food in the
5
work area?
6
A.
7 8
Yes. MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 5.
9
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 5
10
was marked for
11
identification.)
12
BY MR. WALDON:
13
Q.
Take a look at that, please,
14
for a second, or whatever you need to read
15
it.
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Do you recognize this letter?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Do you have any personal
20
knowledge of the incident to which it
21
refers with regard to food and the
22
secretarial area?
23 24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
to the form of the question.
page 42
1 2
MR. WALDON:
Would you repeat
that question, please?
3
(Question read back by the
4
reporter, as requested.)
5 6
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Do you have any personal
7
knowledge of what happened that's the
8
subject of this letter?
9
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
And what do you recall
11 12
happening? A.
It was an incident where a
13
birthday cake was placed on the countertop
14
of the work station that the Clintons rent.
15
And people were partaking of the birthday
16
cake and, quite frankly, making a mess on
17
the floor around it.
18
Q.
And do you know if Donna
19
Carlson or anyone else of KRC talked to
20
anyone at the Clinton firm before sending
21
this letter?
22
A.
23 24
I have no idea. MR. WALDON:
Let's mark the
next exhibit, please, Plaintiff's
page 43
1
Exhibit 6.
2
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 6
3
was marked for
4
identification.)
5 6
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at
7
Plaintiff's Exhibit 6 and tell me if you
8
recognize that document.
9
A.
Yes, I do.
10
Q.
And was the letter being
11
returned Plaintiff's Exhibit 5, if you
12
recall?
13
A.
I assume, but I can't say for
14
certain because it doesn't reference in the
15
writing here what letter it is; but I
16
assume that that's what it is.
17 18
Q.
And is that -- is the
handwriting yours?
19
A.
Yes, sir.
20
Q.
Oh, above your handwriting, who
21
is Stephanie Capps, if you recall?
22
A.
I have no idea.
23
Q.
In the first line under
24
"Gentlemen," does it say -- and it's fairly
page 44
1
legible writing -- "Your hostility is
2
troubling and certainly not warranted"?
3
that what it says?
4
A.
That's what it says.
5
Q.
What, quote/unquote,
6 7 8
Is
"hostility" were you referring to? A.
What's missing between the last
two exhibits that you handed me is the
9
letter that was sent out, or memorandum --
10
I don't know what it is -- by Mr. Clinton,
11
Sr. to all of the sub-tenants and to K & R,
12
dealing with the item of correspondence
13
that we addressed in the cake incident.
14 15 16
Q.
And to the best of your
recollection, what did that memo say? A.
Without having it in front of
17
me, I couldn't describe it; but it was, I
18
think, accurately reflected in my first
19
sentence of this Exhibit 6, "hostility."
20 21 22 23 24
Q.
Do you recall, generally, what
the memo said or points made or anything? A.
Generally speaking, it blasted
K & R for enforcing the rules. Q.
Did you have any discussion --
page 45
1
well, this handwritten note on the memo to
2
Donna Carlson, I presume, was given to the
3
Clinton firm, is that correct?
4
A.
Yes, sir.
5
Q.
And after it was given to the
6
Clinton firm, did you have any discussion
7
about your note with anyone at the Clinton
8
firm?
9
A.
No, not that I recall.
10
Q.
And why is that?
11 12
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: to the form of the question.
13 14
THE WITNESS: for itself.
15 16
The letter speaks
There was no reply. MR. WALDON:
Please mark this
one as Plaintiff's Exhibit 7.
17
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 7
18
was marked for
19
identification.)
20 21 22
Object
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at
Plaintiff's Exhibit 7.
23
A.
Yes.
24
Q.
Is this a memo you received
page 46
1
from Mr. Clinton, Jr. on or about the date
2
it bears, August 5, 2009?
3
A.
Yes.
4
Q.
On page 2, they are not
5
numbered but the one, two, three, four,
6
fifth paragraph down, it states that you
7
personally visited Mary and apologized for
8
the letter that your office manager sent.
9
Is that accurate?
10
A.
No.
11
Q.
Did you talk with Mary?
So are
12
you saying it's not accurate because you
13
didn't apologize, or are you saying you
14
didn't talk to Mary at all?
15
A.
I answered your question.
16
asked was that accurate?
17
not."
You
I said, "No, it's
18
Q.
What is inaccurate about it?
19
A.
It's not correct.
20
Q.
So, did you talk to Mary Winch
21
about the birthday cake incident?
22
A.
Yes.
23
Q.
And do you recall approximately
24
when after it occurred or vis-a-vis these
page 47
1 2
other letters? A.
No.
But this letter indicates
3
that it was after the letter was sent by
4
the office manager, so it was sometime
5
after that.
6
Q.
7
And so you didn't apologize, is
that your recollection, for Donna's letter?
8
A.
I didn't apologize for the
9
letter, no.
10
Q.
What did you say to Mary?
11
A.
I said I was sorry that the
12
incident was causing her any difficulty
13
because she was only following the
14
instructions of her superiors.
15
like Mary Winch.
16
Q.
I happen to
With regard to that discussion
17
that you just testified about with regard
18
to Mary Winch, have you had any other such
19
discussions with any other subtenant or its
20
personnel with regard to any conduct or
21
action that Donna Carlson has taken, if you
22
can recall?
23 24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: to the form of the question.
Object
Incredibly
page 48
1
vague an overbroad.
2
impossible to answer, but if you can
3
understand it, you may answer.
4
I think it's
THE WITNESS:
Would you rephrase
5
that and, kind of, get to the point that
6
you are trying to make?
7
understand, and I can't give you a blanket
8
answer to that question, not in the form in
9
which it's phrased.
I don't
Have I talked to
10
sub-tenants about Donna Carlson?
11
relation to what?
12
are after.
13
whatever question you have.
14
BY MR. WALDON:
15
Q.
In
I don't know what you
I will be happy to answer
I am interested in any action
16
that Donna has taken that any sub-tenant
17
had a problem with and you talked to the
18
sub-tenant to say you were sorry about what
19
Donna had done or was sorry about the
20
impact of it, something like that, anything
21
similar.
22
A.
Not that I recall, no, sir.
23
Q.
At some point in 2009, KRC
24
denied its sub-tenants access to the two
page 49
1
internal bathrooms, is that correct?
2 3
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: to the form of the question.
4 5
Object
MR. WALDON:
What's the
objection?
6
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Because
7
you are characterizing with argumentative
8
.
9
in my estimation.
10
"Denied" is not an appropriate term
BY MR. WALDON:
11
Q.
Can you answer the question?
12
A.
No.
13
Q.
You don't recall that?
14
A.
I can't answer the question the
15
way it's phrased.
16 17
MR. WALDON:
Mark this as
Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, please.
18
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 8
19
was marked for
20
identification.)
21 22
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Take a look, please, at what's
23
been marked Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, and tell
24
me if you are familiar with that document.
page 50
1
A.
Yes.
2
Q.
And in the second to third line
3
of the first paragraph -- well, this is a
4
memo from you, correct?
5
A.
That's correct.
6
Q.
To all of the sub-tenants?
7
A.
That's correct.
8
Q.
Dated August 25, 2009, is that
9 10
correct? A.
That's the date it bears.
11
Q.
And in the first paragraph,
12
second and third sentence, your memo
13
states, "It has been necessary to return
14
the bathroom facilities to their original
15
intended purpose, usage by KRC employees
16
and associates," is that correct?
17
A.
That's what it says.
18
Q.
So by virtue of this memo,
19
weren't you denying access to the other
20
sub-tenants to the internal bathrooms?
21
A.
No.
22
Q.
How could they use the internal
23
bathrooms when you said it's only for the
24
usage for KRC personnel?
page 51
1
A.
They used it by our permission.
2
It wasn't a denial.
3
of no permission.
4 5
Q.
It was a reassertion
First of all, there are two
internal bathrooms, correct, in Suite 3400?
6
A.
That's correct.
7
Q.
And one right as you are going
8
into or coming out of the den conference
9
room, correct?
10
A.
Yes.
11
Q.
And the other one close by?
12
A.
Yes.
13
Q.
And the internal conference
14
rooms, the larger one, everyone calls it
15
"the den," is that correct?
16
A.
That's correct.
17
Q.
And then there is a smaller
18
conference room?
19
A.
That is correct.
20
Q.
You have referred several times
21
to KRC giving permission to use things,
22
such as internal bathrooms.
23
writing at any time to any sub-tenant,
24
giving them permission to use any of the
Was that in
page 52
1
common areas?
2
A.
No.
3
Q.
So what, if anything, gave
4
sub-tenants permission to use these common
5
areas?
6 7
A.
They were informed that they
could use them by our permission, yes.
8
Q.
By Donna?
9
A.
Probably.
10
Q.
All right.
Referring back to
11
Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, the memo refers to
12
"a series of most unfortunate, uncorrected
13
and repeated events."
Do you see that?
14
A.
Yes, sir.
15
Q.
What does that refer to?
16
A.
The discovery on a number of
17
occasions of urination which ended up on
18
the floors of the bathrooms, which created
19
an unsanitary, unhealthy and unsafe
20
condition.
21 22
Q.
Both internal bathrooms that
this was discovered?
23
A.
I believe that's correct.
24
Q.
So who discovered the
page 53
1 2
conditions that you have just described? A.
It was reported to me by Donna
3
Carlson, and I believe I also had a
4
discussion concerning it with Pam G., as
5
you referred to her.
6
believe that our receptionist at that time
7
also reported it to, I believe, Donna
8
Carlson indicating that she slipped and
9
almost fell and hurt herself.
10 11 12 13
Q.
And also, I do
And what is that receptionist
-- former receptionist, you say? A.
Yes.
It was a couple of
receptionists ago.
14
Q.
What was her name?
15
A.
I can't right now.
16
Q.
And what, if anything, do you
17
recall about the details of her slipping
18
and almost hurting herself?
19 20 21 22 23
A.
I didn't get the details of it.
I just got the report that it happened. Q.
And what steps, if any, did you
take after that, after hearing that report? A.
In an effort to not stigmatize
24
anybody, my view of -- my observation that
page 54
1
it occurred only after the Clintons had
2
begun their tenancy, sub-tenancy, with our
3
firm, that it might be logical to assume
4
that because of the physical condition of
5
Mr. Clinton, Sr., his difficulty in
6
walking, stability issues possibly, and
7
whatever, that it could be that he was the
8
individual who may have had a directional
9
challenge from time to time using the
10 11
bathrooms. So as not to embarrass
12
Mr. Clinton, Jr. by discussing the matter
13
about his father, I went to Curtis Ross,
14
who is a good friend of the Clintons, and
15
came over approximately the same time from
16
this other suite where they were all at,
17
and sat with him and asked him if he could
18
discretely and gently discuss the matter
19
with Mr. Clinton, Jr., since I didn't know
20
Mr. Clinton, Jr. that well, and possibly
21
see if that was what had been occurring.
22
No one ever got back to me
23
about that.
And it continued.
And we
24
eventually rescinded the permission to
page 55
1 2 3 4 5 6
utilize the bathrooms. Q.
Did you ever go back to
Mr. Ross to follow up? A.
No.
I didn't find it was
incumbent upon me to do so. Q.
Do any documents exist with
7
regard -- besides Plaintiff's Exhibit 8 --
8
with regard to the decision, and was it
9
your decision to take the steps outlined in
10
Plaintiff's Exhibit 8?
11
A.
Absolutely.
12
Q.
And are there any other
13
documents relating to that incident or any
14
inspection or anything with regard to the
15
condition of the bathrooms as you have
16
described them?
17
A.
When?
18
Q.
Prior to sending out the memo
19 20
At what time?
on August 25, 2009. A.
I do believe there had been
21
another incident, and that's what prompted
22
us to do what we did.
23 24
Q.
No.
I am asking about
documents.
page 56
1
A.
Documents.
2
Q.
Notes of an inspection or
3
anything?
4
A.
5
of any.
6
Q.
No, I don't -- I am not aware
Let's go back for one second to
7
Plaintiff's Exhibit 13, another document
8
that was produced this afternoon, the first
9
one after the letter bearing number 1202,
10
an e-mail from May 29, 2009 talking about
11
cleaning inspections.
12
My question will be if you know to what
Take a look at that.
13
this refers.
14
A.
We had --
15
Q.
What cleaning?
16
A.
-- an outbreak, if you will, of
17
fruit flies and other forms of vermin
18
because of careless use of food in the work
19
stations.
20
come in and do their thing, as you will, to
21
help rid us of the problem.
22
and they came back on a couple of other
23
occasions to do inspections to be sure that
24
that occurrence was still not taking place.
We had to have the exterminators
And they did,
page 57
1
And this is right around the same time
2
where the cake incident took place, roughly
3
speaking.
4
Q.
I am not sure exactly when. So this has nothing to do with
5
the internal bathroom issue that we were
6
just discussing?
7
A.
No.
8
Q.
Any similar documents that you
9
know of with regard to the bathroom
10
incidents we were just talking about, about
11
clean up or redoing or anything with regard
12
to that?
13
A.
No documents.
The only thing
14
is, in my conversations with Pam G., that
15
she went in and cleaned up a couple of
16
times to get rid of the spill.
17
Q.
All right.
We have been at it
18
about an hour.
19
and let's you and I talk for a second.
20
Why don't we take a break
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
It's
21
been more than an hour because I have got a
22
stop watch.
23 24
page 58
1
(After a short break, the
2
deposition resumed as
3
follows:)
4 5
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Let's go back for a second to
6
Plaintiff's Exhibit 4, the Answer to the
7
Complaint, and go to page 39 -- I am sorry
8
-- page 22, paragraph 39.
9
have a question about the first sentence,
10
but go ahead and read it to the extent you
11
wish.
12
A.
Number 39?
13
Q.
Number 39.
I am going to
And this is in the
14
beginning of your Affirmative Defenses,
15
just to give you a context.
16
A.
Okay.
17
Q.
My question with regard to the
18
first sentence which refers to one or more
19
persons slipping -- time out for a second.
20
(There was a brief
21
interruption.)
22 23 24
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Paragraph 39 in the Affirmative
Defense refers to "one or more persons
page 59
1
slipping on urine on the floor in one of
2
the bathrooms and almost falling and
3
injuring themselves."
You had testified
4
about the former receptionist, correct?
5
A.
Um-hum.
6
Q.
Does this allegation, this
7
sentence in paragraph 39, refer to that
8
person?
9
A.
I don't know.
I didn't attest
10
to this.
11
incident that I was aware of, and I heard
12
there was another incident, but I am not
13
sure.
14
I do know that we had that one
Q.
Okay.
Do you any
15
details with regard to the potential second
16
incident?
17
A.
No.
18
am not sure.
19
Q.
Okay.
I think I just told you, I
We will put that back
20
then.
21
memo, Plaintiff's Exhibit 8, did the
22
Clinton firm object?
23 24
With regard to your August 25th
A.
I do believe so. MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
page 60
1
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 9.
2
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No. 9
3
was marked for
4
identification.)
5 6
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Please take a look at
7
Plaintiff's Exhibit 9.
And the first
8
question would be, did you receive it?
9
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
And do you see in the first
11
paragraph -- and this is from Mr. Clinton,
12
Jr., correct?
13
A.
14 15
It's not signed, but it is --
it bears his name. Q.
And in the first paragraph, the
16
letter states that, "The Clinton firm
17
disagrees with the August 25th memo with
18
regard to the internal bathrooms and
19
believes it to be a breach of the
20
sublease."
21
A.
Do you see that? That's what it says.
22
Q.
Did you ever talk with
23
Mr. Clinton, Jr. after receipt of this
24
letter about the statement that the Clinton
page 61
1
firm thought it to be a breach of the
2
sublease?
3
A.
No.
4
Q.
In the second paragraph, it
5
states that, "For many years prior to
6
August 25th, the interior bathrooms were
7
open and available to all tenants, guests
8
and Kusper personnel."
9
A.
Yes.
We granted permission for
10
all of our sub-tenants all of those years
11
to utilize them, as well as their guests
12
and our personnel, because we never had
13
incidents of urination on the floors, which
14
would cause a hazard.
15
permission to do so.
16
Q.
So yes, they had
In the third paragraph, it
17
states that, "Prior to g the lease,
18
the office manager informed the Clinton
19
firm that they would be able to use the
20
interior bathrooms."
21
far as you know?
Is that accurate, so
22
A.
That's what the letter says.
23
Q.
Do you know if that, one way or
24
the other, if that's an accurate statement?
page 62
1
A.
I was not present during that
2
discussion, but I would imagine that she
3
probably, if she did say that, indicated
4
that there would be permission for them to
5
use it, yes.
6
Q.
With regard to the -- they are
7
not numbered, but one, two, three, four,
8
fifth paragraph down, it states that,
9
" of this firm and everyone
10
associated with us were very careful to
11
clean and maintain the bathrooms."
12
know if that is an accurate statement or
13
not?
14
A.
I have no idea.
Do you
15
Q.
The next paragraph states that,
16
"In March of '09, toilet in the small
17
bathroom had a plunger next to it."
18
recall seeing that, or do you know if
19
that's an accurate statement?
Do you
20
A.
That's accurate.
21
Q.
And the paragraph after that,
22
refers to a substantial burden on a
23
Ms. Bryant.
24
A.
Is that Andre Bryant? I believe that's to who he
page 63
1
refers, yes.
2
Q.
And is it your recollection or
3
memory that she was handicapped in some
4
way?
5
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
6
to the form of the question.
7
understand, you can answer.
8 9
THE WITNESS:
Object
If you
If you observe
Miss Bryant, you see that she walks with a
10
cane.
11
BY MR. WALDON:
12
Q.
Did you ever talk to Miss
13
Bryant after the August 25th memo e
14
of the internal bathrooms or not?
15 16 17
A.
No.
She never approached me.
I never approached her. Q.
So given -- so, with regard to
18
this Plaintiff's Exhibit 9, this letter, do
19
you state you did not respond to
20
Mr. Clinton, Jr., is that correct?
21
A.
The letter is dated September
22
the 4th, 2009.
23
this letter because there was no need to.
24
Q.
I have not responded to
So is it correct to say that
page 64
1
then, after receiving this letter, you
2
didn't inform anyone at the Clinton firm
3
that you thought there was some sort of
4
mutual mistake in the lease -- the
5
sublease?
6 7
A.
The letter didn't address any
legal rights that they attained under the
8
sublease; and no, there was no conversation
9
about anything at all.
10
Q.
Well, but just directing your
11
attention for one second back to the first
12
paragraph, they talk about legally, it
13
says, "the firm believes it's a breach of
14
our sublease."
15
correctly?
16
A.
So that is stated
That is stated in the letter
17
back in September of '09, and this is
18
almost July of 2011.
19 20
MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 10.
21
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No.
22
10 was marked for
23
identification.)
24
page 65
1 2
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Take a look at Plaintiff's
3
Exhibit 10 dated September 18, 2009.
4
you receive a copy of this memo from
Did
5 6
Mr. Clinton, Sr.? A.
Well, it's addressed to me, but
7
I don't know if I received it.
8
recall.
9
Q.
I can't
So I guess if you don't recall
10
receiving it, you wouldn't know whether or
11
not you responded to it, is that correct?
12
Just no recollection?
13 14 15
A.
I just have absolutely no
recollection of that at all. Q.
Okay.
I am sorry.
Did any other sub-tenant
16
object to you, either orally or in writing,
17
to the August 25, 2009, memo --
18
A.
No.
19
Q.
-- Plaintiff's Exhibit 8?
20
A.
No.
21
Q.
Have you had any conversations
22
with any sub-tenants in Suite 3400 stating
23
your position that you think their sublease
24
has a mutual mistake?
page 66
1 2
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER: to the form of the question.
3
THE WITNESS:
4
never been raised.
5
BY MR. WALDON:
6
Object
Q.
The issue has
Since this current lawsuit was
7
filed, have you or anyone at KRC
8
communicated with any other sub-tenants
9
with regard to their subleases or any of
10
the thereof?
11
A.
12
but myself.
13
Q.
I can't speak for anybody else I have not. At some point, KRC restricted
14
the use of the den, the large conference
15
room, isn't that correct?
16
A.
That usage has always been
17
restricted.
18
Q.
In what way?
19
A.
People would have to
20
in a book to be able to set out the time
21
that they were going to use it so there
22
wouldn't be chaos among all the sub-tenants
23
with regard to the use of the rooms.
24
MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
page 67
1
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 11.
2
(Plaintiff's Exhibit No.
3
11 was marked for
4
identification.)
5 6 7 8
THE WITNESS:
I read it.
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Is this a memo you sent on or
about April 5, 2011?
9
A.
Yes.
10
Q.
Did you make the decision that
11
is reflected in this memo with regard to
12
the den?
13
A.
Yes.
14
Q.
Please describe -- well, take
15
that back.
Withdrawn.
Did you see or find
16
the serious scratch and 10-inch gouge on
17
the table that's referred to here?
18
A.
Yes.
19
Q.
Who is the first person who saw
20
it, if you know?
21 22
A.
first person who saw it, but I saw it.
23 24
I have no idea who was the
Q.
And do you recall when that
was, approximately?
page 68
1 2
A.
Shortly before this memo was
sent.
3
Q.
Do you have any facts with
4
regard to how this scratch and gouge may
5
have happened?
6
A.
The memo itself refers to the
7
anonymity of whoever did it.
8
know.
9 10
Q.
We don't
Did you talk to Donna Carlson
about the scratch and the gouge?
11
A.
Yes.
12
Q.
And what were the contents of
13
that discussion?
14
A.
I was not a happy camper.
15
Q.
What, if anything, did she have
16
to say?
17
A.
She understood it and came up
18
with a suggestion that, in addition to the
19
registration of the time that you wanted in
20
the books that we had available for usage
21
of the room, that we take steps to insure
22
that the room was used only at the times
23
that are requested by the sub-tenants and
24
by our firm.
page 69
1
Q.
The den had not been locked
2
permanently prior to this time, is that
3
correct?
4
A.
No it had not.
5
Q.
Do you recall who reported the
6
scratch and the gouge to you?
7
A.
8 9
I think it was either -MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
me.
Excuse
I am going to object to the form of
10
the question.
To him personally, or to
11
Kusper and Raucci?
12
MR. WALDON:
To him personally.
13
THE WITNESS:
I think I heard
14
about it from Donna.
15
could have been Stanley, III.
16
BY MR. WALDON:
17 18
Q.
I am not sure.
It
Do you recall what time of day
it was reported to you?
19
A.
No, I do not.
20
Q.
Do you, Stanley Kusper, Jr.,
21
think someone at the Clinton firm did the
22
damage to the table?
23 24
A.
I have absolutely no way of
knowing.
page 70
1
Q.
Are there any documents, notes,
2
memos or other documents relating to the
3
incident that resulted in Plaintiff's
4
Exhibit 11?
5
A.
6
about them.
7 8 9
If there are, I don't know
MR. WALDON:
Mark this, please,
as Plaintiff's Exhibit 12. (Plaintiff's Exhibit No.
10
12 was marked for
11
identification.)
12 13
BY MR. WALDON: Q.
Take a look at Plaintiff's
14
Exhibit 12, and tell me if you received
15
this letter on or about the date it bears.
16
A.
Yes, I did.
17
Q.
Was that from a lawyer named
18
Dennis Waldon?
19
A.
I think so, Dennis C. Waldon.
20
Q.
And did you respond to
21
Mr. Waldon?
22
A.
I believe we had a telephone
23
conversation when you called me, and you
24
said to me that I hadn't responded; and I
page 71
1
said, "Well, we will, in due course.
2
think it deserves a response."
3 4
Q.
I
And do you recall when that
occurred?
5
A.
No.
6
Q.
Is that the only time you
7
recall you and I speaking about this
8
letter?
9
A.
10
I believe that's correct. MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
11
forget you already marked 13.
12
BY MR. WALDON:
13
Q.
Don't
With regard, generally, to your
14
interaction with other sub-tenants in Suite
15
3400 over the last couple of years, do you
16
consider yourself to be aloof from them?
17
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
18
to the form of the question.
19
argumentative.
20
answer.
21
Object
It's also
If you understand, you can
THE WITNESS:
How can I answer
22
that question when everybody is different
23
and interactions between people are
24
different based upon the differences
page 72
1
between the people and the attitudes of
2
those people?
I do not consider myself to
3
be aloof.
4
myself to be quite friendly.
5
BY MR. WALDON:
6
Q.
On the contrary.
I consider
On matters relating to
7
interaction and communications with the
8
sub-tenants on issues that might arise, do
9
you prefer that Donna Carlson deals with
10 11
them rather than yourself? A.
That's why she is there.
12
is the office manager.
13
active practice of law.
14
Q.
She
I, too, have an
In the Defendant's Responses to
15
Plaintiff's Rule 213(f) Interrogatories,
16
Steven Adatto, A-d-a-t-t-o -- is that how
17
you pronounce his name?
18
A.
That's correct.
19
Q.
-- is identified as a witness
20
who may testify about matters in the
21
Complaint in K & R's Affirmative Defenses
22
and Counterclaim.
23
information he has knowledge about with
24
regard to those issues?
Do you know what
page 73
1
A.
He oftentimes advises Donna
2
with regard to leasehold matters and
3
issues.
4
them involve the Clinton -- I will call it
5
a controversy.
6
the subject of -- I will try to be polite
7
about this -- a complaint filed with the
8
Attorney Registration and Disciplinary
9
Commission by Mr. Clinton, Jr. with regard
I don't know whether or not any of
But I do know that he was
10
to alleged, and I stress the word
11
"alleged," conduct in a matter before the
12
Department of Employment Security of
13
Illinois.
14 15
Q. practice?
What is Mr. Adatto's area of Does it include real estate?
16
A.
Yes.
17
Q.
Anything else?
18
A.
He practices in all phases of
19
our practice.
20
does work before the Department of
21
Employment Security.
22
injury work.
He does employment work.
He
He does personal
He does insurance work.
He
23
does whatever.
Again, he is one of our
24
general functionaries.
page 74
1
Q.
But some real estate?
2
A.
Yes.
3
Q.
It includes real estate?
4
A.
Yes, he has handled real estate
5
transactions on behalf of the office and
6
his clients.
7
Q.
Let's go back, please, for a
8
second to Plaintiff's Exhibit 4, the
9
Answer.
10
page 28.
11
there is "unclean hands."
12
at the allegations in paragraph 69.
13
a few questions about 69.
And if you would turn, please, to The fifth affirmative defense And take a look I have
14
A.
Okay.
I have read it.
15
Q.
Are you aware of any facts with
16
regard to the allegation that the Clinton
17
firm engaged in unfair, inequitable,
18
unconscionable and/or fraudulent actions in
19
connection with the sublease?
20
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Object
21
to the form of the question.
This is an
22
allegation in a pleading that has legal
23
concepts in it that are set forth in order
24
to establish the defense.
The witness may
page 75
1
not know exactly how to characterize
2
certain facts to fit within or without any
3
of those particular allegations and legal
4
concepts.
5
after the facts are into evidence and for
6
decision by the judge.
7
that you are asking him, also, for a legal
8
conclusion is improper.
9
the question, you can answer.
10
That is for argument of counsel
THE WITNESS:
So to the extent
If you understand
Well, I think it's
11
unfair and unconscionable for people to
12
come to you and lease two offices and a
13
work station and, with an obvious mistake
14
in the lease, not seize upon it for all of
15
the time that they were there, some two
16
years plus, and attempt to assert that they
17
have sublet the entire office, including
18
all of the sub-tenants, including all of
19
the Kusper and Raucci space.
20
that's unfair.
21
unconscionable, as a matter of fact.
22
I think
I think it's
It's inequitable to assert
23
these things after about, what, a
24
year-and-a-half delay, after asserting
page 76
1
their first alleged breach.
2
believe that there are, from what I have
3
been told, statements --
4
And I do
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Excuse
5
me.
6
about to testify to something that may have
7
come from a conversation between you and I.
8
If so, that's privileged.
9
I need to make sure that you are not
10 11
THE WITNESS:
Yes.
I can't do
that. MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Thank
12
you.
I object and instruct him not to
13
answer on privilege grounds.
14
THE WITNESS:
15
can't.
16
BY MR. WALDON:
17
Q.
I'd like to, but I
Turn to the next page, please,
18
if you would, in Plaintiff's Exhibit 4.
19
The seventh affirmative defense alleges an
20
illegality.
21
for a moment to paragraph 77.
22
question there.
And I direct your attention I have a
23
A.
Go ahead.
24
Q.
Do you know of any facts, which
page 77
1
is what I am asking you about, that would
2
indicate that plaintiff's firms are barred
3
by the principles of illegality?
4
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Again, I
5
am going to interpose my objection to the
6
form of the question, as well as asking
7
this witness to testify to legal
8
conclusions.
Although you ask him for
9
facts, you are asking for him to fit those
10
facts and categorize them within the
11
construct of an affirmative defense of
12
legal concepts.
13
witness to testify to or to make those
14
judgments, but rather it is for the judge
15
and only the judge after the facts to which
16
this witness may have personal knowledge
17
are into evidence.
18
That is not for this
Subject to those objections, if
19
you understand, and I stress that if you
20
understand, you may answer.
21
MR. WALDON:
Object to the
22
improper coaching, but go ahead if you can.
23
We are talking about facts.
24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Same
page 78
1
objection.
2
THE WITNESS:
I don't know what
3
facts the pleader of this affirmative
4
defense relied upon in making that defense;
5
and, accordingly, I can't answer the
6
question.
7
BY MR. WALDON:
8
Q.
9
for a moment.
10
A.
11 12
Let's go back to paragraph 13
You don't mean paragraph 13.
You mean Exhibit 13. Q.
Exhibit 13, right.
Okay.
If
13
you look past the transmittal letter, we
14
talked about 1202.
15
marked in the lower right-hand corner
16
through 1207, which is at the top, do you
17
know what these documents relate to?
18
A.
The documents 1203
This is -- the first one on 03
19
is an invoice from Simone D'Amore, who was
20
the woodworker who refinished the table
21
that was scratched and gouged.
22
Q.
The table in the den?
23
A.
In the den, yes, sir.
24
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
Just if
page 79
1
I can for the record, each of the memos or
2
invoices are dated the same in the text
3
area, but if you look at the fax legends,
4
you will see the differences in when they
5
were actually transmitted and when they
6
came in.
7
BY MR. WALDON:
8 9
Q.
And the one that starts at
1206, that's another invoice to that
10
gentleman for additional work on the table,
11
I presume?
12 13
A.
No.
reflects the entire total of $2,200.
14 15
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
18
They are
in reverse.
16 17
That is an invoice that
MR. WALDON:
They are both dated
February 28. MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
And they
19
are in reverse order.
20
fax legends on the top or bottom of the
21
document, you will see when they were
22
actually sent in and what the differences
23
are in the timing of them.
24
MR. WALDON:
If you look at the
Yes, I see.
All
page 80
1
right.
2
same.
3
Even though they are dated the
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
4
That was the biller's mistake.
5
BY MR. WALDON:
6
Q.
Exactly.
I am going to ask a question
7
without marking as an exhibit because it's
8
hundreds of pages long.
9
represent to you that these are some of the
But I will
10
documents that we received today,
11
indicating they are calendars.
12
know, just to identify generally, are these
13
calendars that KRC uses for reserving and
14
using the conference rooms in the suite?
15 16 17 18 19 20
And if you
A.
That's what they appear to be,
Q.
You don't maintain these
yes.
documents, is that correct? A.
No, I do not.
That's why I
have an office manager and a receptionist.
21
Q.
And one other question.
Do you
22
know -- which you may or may not know.
For
23
example, here's a page for January 5th.
It
24
refers to the den, small conference room,
page 81
1
and what's the third column, do you know,
2
library?
3
A.
That looks like library.
4
Q.
Library, okay.
And on this
5
page under January 5th under the den, there
6
is, like, a file stamp for December 29th.
7
Do you see that?
8
A.
I see that.
9
Q.
Do you know what that means?
10
A.
Absolutely not.
11
Q.
Okay.
12
Would Donna Carlson
know?
13
A.
You would have to ask her, sir.
14
Q.
Why don't we take a short
15
break?
That may be it.
I am sorry.
With
16
regard to the calendar, you may or may not
17
know this.
Are there back-up documents?
18
For example, if someone e-mails or sends a
19
memo to reserve a conference room and after
20
it's put down in the book, is that back-up
21
documentation kept, if you know?
22
A.
I have no idea.
That would
23
probably be out of the ordinary because
24
everybody's in the suite, generally
page 82
1 2
speaking. MR. WALDON:
Okay, short break.
3
(After a short break, the
4
deposition resumed as
5
follows:)
6
MR. WALDON:
7
MR. STEWART T. KUSPER:
8 9 10 11 12 13
reserve signature.
No more questions. We will
I have no questions.
(Whereupon the deposition concluded.)
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
page 83
1
STATE OF ILLINOIS
2
COUNTY OF COOK
) ) SS )
3 4
I,______________________________________,
5
do hereby certify that I have read the
6
foregoing transcript of my deposition
7
consisting of pages ____ through ___,
8
inclusive; and I find it is a true and
9
correct transcript of my deposition so
10
given as aforesaid.
11 12 13
________________________________________
14 15 16
Subscribed and sworn to
17
before me this ____ day
18
of _____________, 2011.
19 20
___________________________
21
Notary Public
22 23 24
page 84
1
STATE OF ILLINOIS
2
COUNTY OF C O O K
) ) )
SS:
3 4 5 6
I, Cathleen M. Baker, CSR, Certified Shorthand Reporter, and a notary
7
public in and for the County of Cook and
8
State of Illinois, do hereby certify that
9
STANLEY T. KUSPER, JR., on June 30, 2011,
10
was by me first duly sworn to testify to
11
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
12
the truth, and that the above deposition
13
was recorded stenographically by me and
14
transcribed by me.
15
I FURTHER CERTIFY that the
16
foregoing transcript of said deposition is
17
a true, correct, and complete transcript of
18
the testimony given by the said witness at
19
the time and place specified.
20
I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not
21
a relative or employee or attorney or
22
employee of such attorney or counsel, or
23
financially interested directly or
24
indirectly in this action.
page 85
1 2 3
IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have set my hand.
4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
________________________________ Cathleen M. Baker Certified Shorthand Reporter Certificate No. 84-002130
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